Is jar jar binks going to be in episode 2 alot, or just here and there ya think? (1 Viewer)

[StephenC]

It is nice to see another thread turn into the great Star Wars debate.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I guess your hatred for anything george lucas jades your opinions though

I will accept your apology at any time now.
Considering that I mentioned IN THIS THREAD things that Lucas has done which I like, you owe me one.
Take some time to rethink your over-emotional outlook on this situation.
I have already admitted "Maybe I'm reading it wrong" to Terrell. He and I have already reached the understanding that we think it plays differently and I think we both agree that if it plays serious (at least the pain/trouble) then it seems fine, and if it is cornball then, yes, it would be like a Jar Jar numb tongue joke or something.
I also think Terrell and I are both hoping for the good result.
You can not take people having different opinions on a situation as some personal attack. So many times threads like this end up with a few people jumping in like that while many others are trying to have a serious debate in which 2 DIFFERENT views are being compared.
IF YOU DON'T DISCUSS, THEN THERE IS NO HTF! That's the whole point of this place. It's not just a big FAQ of lists of the best films, equipment, etc.
I like Denon, (here, here).
And Fox DVD (yes, yes)
And DTS is the best (I 2nd that).
"You're the man"
"How can I be the man, when you are the man"
"Yes, but I can't be the man when you are so the man".
Truly it's a dream world we can all strive for. :rolleyes
It's funny to me because Terrell and I also happen to be the only 2 people at HTF that AGREE on the AP3 trailer being funny. It's the nature of HTF and opinions.
Having discussed it with Terrell (and others) I might be changing my mind, or at the very least I have considered their points. The only thing we DO NOT want is opinions WITHOUT EXPLANATION.

 

[Terrell]

I know. When everyone else thought the AP3 trailer wasn't funny, I thought something was wrong with my sense of humor. Anyway, I hope we get good results. I think we will. I've read the spoiler script, which seems to be accurate, and it is clearly superior to me than TPM, even though I really liked TPM a lot, regardless of its flaws.
I think in that scene, people can see it differently. But judging anything from a trailer is hard, because many of the scenes and and lines of dialogue have been completely taken out of context and thrown together. So sometimes scenes don't look right and lines of dialogue seem stiff. But it is clear that the scene in question is meant as a bit of humor. I thought it was neat, and not having it come from Jar Jar was a huge plus, but Seth disagreed. In the end, I hope we both can live with it. That was one thing I liked about LOTR. They saw fit to include some humor, and I like that. I like it when fantasy films don't take themselves to seriously.

 

[Anthony_D]

I will accept your apology at any time now.

Considering that I mentioned IN THIS THREAD things that Lucas has done which I like, you owe me one.

Take some time to rethink your over-emotional outlook on this situation.

ok, seth...I apologize...its true that i was overly emotional...i just can't stand the bashing of a movie over one friggin trailer.

btw seth you've made some really good points (unlike people like Robert and Sam)

 

[Seth Paxton]

Thank you Anthony, I really do appreciate that.
Since I took such a strong stand I think it's best for me to acknowledge our understanding now at let it end smoothly.
I need to do it in another thread really, but watching TPM on DVD (finally, sold the LD earlier) the other day I was struck again by how close the film actually was to OT quality. Keys to me do NOT involve Lucas as a director. That aspect seems pretty solid to me, except for handling the acting which is one of my problems.
1- Jake is just poor, no way around that, even by kid actor standards. Some of his dialog seemed bad, but honestly it could have just been him destroying it.
2- Jar-Jar would have been MUCH better with a different or non-existent accent AND if he had been written with dignity. He needed some Han Solo heroic moments where he INTENTIONALLY helped others.
Here is a perfect example -
The final battle he gets the robot arm/whatever stuck on him and fires the gun by accident. In the OT we still would have him humorously interact with the bot early on like that, but then he would have cleverly INTENTIONALLY smacked the gun down and made it fire at an onrushing bot. That's the sort of amazing heroics after screwing up that Han, C3PO were the masters of and made the characters more lovable and pleasantly comical.
3- The DIALOG. Here is where GL struggled. Or do I "assume too much". JarJar's repeated "how wude"'s and "exsqueeze me" dialog stands out against OT dialog. Jake had some pretty bad dialog moments too, especially at the end of the film when he gets in the ship and accidentally saves the day.
4- Why did Jar Jar need to be CGI anyway? He is basically man sized with no parts that are over-the-top misshapen for a human actor in makeup/costume to perform. Perhaps some CGI touch-up after the fact to enhance the realism. But if Chewy could be non-CGI then why did Jar Jar have to be. It would have helped several scenes in which I thought Liam and Ewan had trouble interacting with his character. Actors work best reacting off of other actors
5- Sort of a wrap up of the above. Why do Jar Jar and Anakin have to save the day by accident at all, primarily in the final conflict? It's little Darth! Luke didn't need accidents to save the day or even get into the situation to save the day. Why could the little robot builder have simply known the basics of ship flying? He's a pod racer, builds bots and works in a spaceship junkyard. They show him undertstanding the basics of ship flying on the way to Naboo, but get him in the ship and it's all "What's this do" with his typical horrible acting not helping.
Good things
R2D2 didn't accidentally save the day. He was lucky for sure, but he helped by his direct actions rather than mishaps. It's a great scene I think.
C3PO is still funny. The "floor isn't entirely stable" and the "naked?" lines are classic OT humor. Not insulting to him as a character, just funny situations that he finds himself in.
Ray Parks as Maul brings some of the best action ANY of the films has had. The final Jedi battle is excellent cinema.
The score is really great.
The story is pretty interesting to me, except the mita's.
Terrell, I have read one version of the story that appears to be mostly valid. I like it but I wonder how it is all going to fit into 2 hours.
So all I'm saying is that before TPM I literally said "GL could put cardboard boxes on screen and I would go see it. After the OT he has 1 free pass coming from me." Then he went and used it up. :frowning:
So now he needs to earn me back in. Hopefully he will. TPM was so close to being done right.

 

[Terrell]

Terrell, I have read one version of the story that appears to be mostly valid. I like it but I wonder how it is all going to fit into 2 hours.

 

[Tom-G]

C3PO is still funny. The "floor isn't entirely stable" and the "naked?" lines are classic OT humor. Not insulting to him as a character, just funny situations that he finds himself in.

Another line I loved, was "I find that Jar Jar creature to be a little odd. Yes, very odd indeed."
I loved TPM, but I realize it had its faults (for the record, I find Episodes IV and V to be flawless and Episodes I and VI to have some faults).
What did you think of what you read about AOTC, Seth? I've been keeping up with all of the spoilers and it sounds as if this movie is going to be much more satisfying for some of the disgruntled Star Wars fans.
Indeed, less Jar Jar and no Jake Lloyd is going to make it better movie, but there is much more to like about AOTC. I know I'm going to love it, but I hope that some of the disgruntled SW fans will enjoy it.

 

[Terrell]

I actually also consider ANH and ESB to be as flawless as possible. I also found ROTJ to be awesome as well, but just a touch below the first two. However, some of the best scenes in the Star Wars saga were in ROTJ. Some of the best dialogue was too. Mark Hamill did his best job acting in that movie as well. Take out the Ewoks and make them Wookies the way they were supposed to be, and I still say the complaints would be far less. Many had a problem with the Ewoks. I sort of liked them, as they genuinely helped and were not portrayed as bumbling and silly the way Jar Jar was.

 

[Jim_C]

>>It's funny to me because Terrell and I also happen to be the only 2 people at HTF that AGREE on the AP3 trailer being funny. It's the nature of HTF and opinions.

 

[Terrell]

WOW! Is the world coming to an end. Oh well. You gotta love opinions. Now all I'm worried about is Seth's, Jim's, and my sense of humor, as everyone else seemed to hate it. I worried about that before. Now add Jim's name to the list.

 

[Jim_C]

I'm worried too Terrell. I've seen the trailer with about 2 dozen different people during my various LOTR screenings and only two of us liked it.

As for this thread I'll add confirmation to Jar Jar's role in Ep II. I've got a copy of the Ep II scriptment that theforce.net had up a while ago. It reads very closely to the various trailers that we've seen. I'm extremely confident that the scriptment is very close to the actual movie. That said Jar Jar has a very small role and is much more mature. He won't be a problem this time around.

As for the movie itself, it IS going to be darker. The scriptment pretty much confirms that. I don't know how it will come across on film because much will depend on Lucas and the performances of the actors. One thing is certain though, McDiarmid, McGregor, and Lee are 'Lucas-Proof' and should deliver strong performances.

I don't have a feeling for Hayden yet though. Some have complained about him in the scene where he blames Obi for holding him back. Personally, I think that he comes across as a typical teenager, full of energy, rebellion, questionable judgement, and a bit awkward. I think that people have to realize that, yes Anakin is destined to be the most powerful Sith in the galaxy, but he's also just a teenager dealing with growing up and the authority figures that surround him.

Just my take on things. I'll hold judgement on all of this until I see everything in it's context, both within Ep II and the overall SW story.

I hope that I haven't annoyed anyone.

 

[Terrell]

I agree as well about the scriptment, as I've read it too. A couple of things are obvious. This film is darker. Everyone will appreciate that. Jar Jar has far less onscreen time, and even that is a much more mature role. Also, I agree McDiarmid, McGregor, and Lee will put out great performances. I also believe Jackson will be strong as well. Don't know enough about Hayden to say. But I think he'll be good enough. Let's hope he's even better than we think from the trailer. I'm really not too worried about this movie at all. Only thing I'm worried about is how Yoda/Dooku will come off onscreen.


Let's keep the fingers crossed. The one I really can't wait for is Episode III.

 

[StephenC]

Is the Forbidden Love trailer a teaser or is there another one on the way in the spring?I hope there is another one that plays up the action(not that I find anything wrong with the romance).I want to see more of Jango and Dooku!

 

[Brian_J]

Why do Jar Jar and Anakin have to save the day by accident at all, primarily in the final conflict? It's little Darth! Luke didn't need accidents to save the day or even get into the situation to save the day. Why could the little robot builder have simply known the basics of ship flying? He's a pod racer, builds bots and works in a spaceship junkyard. They show him undertstanding the basics of ship flying on the way to Naboo, but get him in the ship and it's all "What's this do" with his typical horrible acting not helping.

Well said. I agree with Seth 100% on these points. This really brings down the film a few notches from where it could have been. And Jake Loyd was amazingly bad in this picture.

The thing I dont get though is you create one of The Best Villains ever in Darth Maul and you kill him off so quickly. I would think you would want him in as much of the next two films as possible. But then I guess Annakin has to take his place, right? Seems they could still have him around though for some interesting Darth Maul vs Darth Vader stuff. Oh well, my fantasies are over.

Brian

 

[Chuck Mayer]

First off, part of Jake Lloyd's problem WAS the script and the director - George. This is not a George bash at all, but it is the director's job to DIRECT the actors. GL might have been spoiled by the ability of the rest of the cast, but Jake's performance hurt the overall impact of the film. While I agree Jake wasn't very good, it was not all his fault.

As for Maul...

one of The Best Villains ever in Darth Maul and you kill him off so quickly.

I don't buy that one myself. Best Villains have personality and Maul had NONE. He looked cool, and he could fight, but there was very little menace coming from him. That is also why the fight at the end, while visually great, left me cold UNTIL Qui Gon was wounded. Until that moment, it was emotionless, pointless fighting for the sake of fighting. While the fighting in SW may have been tame in comparison, it was much more epic because there was history and feeling in it. You cared about the characters, and you feared Vader.

But I do think George has outdone himself with AOTC in these above regards. He has put A LOT of good actors in there. He dumped Maul in favor of Count Dooku, who may not "kick ass" like Maul, but will certainly light the screen up a bit more. I am very excited to see how this helps out the movie. I expect a lot of good things from this one.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[Terrell]

Chuck, I have to respectfully disagree with Lucas being the problem with Jake Lloyd. Jake Lloyd has stunk in everything he's been in. He was just as bad, maybe even moreso in Jingle all the way.

As for acting in TPM being somewhat stiff, well I would imagine a lot of that has to do with working with some many blue screens and having to interact with characters that aren't there. In the trailers, Portman and Ewan look much more natural and at ease.

 

[Dwayne]

Regarding Jar Jar...I think it's possible to have the humor without him. Everything with Jar Jar seemed forced to me. I felt like it was the ILM showcase hour....as if every scene with Jar Jar was a little short to show what they can do. After Tom's statements though, I wouldn't say that it was ILM's fault, but Lucas'.

I didn't entirely hate TPM. The podrace and Jedi fighting scenes were exciting. I did feel that the performances were a bit flat (especially Samuel Jackson), save for Ian McDiarmid. Even Ewan wasn't Lucas-proof in TPM, but I feel that he is now with AOTC. The score was quite exceptional. Anakin's not-so-intentional destruction of the droid control ship was pretty bad. But this isn't the first time that Lucas used such a plot device....the other time being Boba Fett's demise (temporary demise that is) into the Sarlacc Pit.

I am looking forward to ATOC. I have a feeling that many here will be very happy with end result.

 

[Jon D]

Thankfully this thread calmed down. It was getting nasty for a while. Regarding Anakin's 'accidental' destruction of the station: it didn't work for me because this kid grows up to be Darth Vader, the ultimate bad ass. I have a hard time thinking some of his traits wouldn't be present since childhood. Anakin had a good moment in the Jedi chamber when he seemed genuinely pissed that he wasn't being accepted. That felt right. The ending felt like a hurried attempt to wrap everything up because the movie was starting to get a little long, and as a result had people act out of character. I think Lloyd had potential, but Lucas is not an actor's director.

 

[Terrell]

I don't think Lloyd has any potential. I haven't seen the least little bit of potential in hom whatsoever. True, Lucas isn't going to berate his actors and hammer them into giving great performances, but Lloyd doesn't have a great performance to give.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Terrell,

Assuming Jake is that bad, and he likely is, then Lucas is still at fault for casting him. Lucas is not known as a actor's director in any case, but children do need more work. And the contrived situations Anakin was in were still the result of lazy (or poor) scriptwriting. Again, it was Lucas' first foray into child actors (as leads), so he can be forgiven to some extent. I am not trying to bash Lucas, but I don't like Jake Lloyd being the "sin-eater" for TPM. It was a good movie that missed being great for several reasons, Lloyd among them, but not alone.

That's all and take care,

Chuck