Is it worth buying from a "Denon authorized dealer/on-line E-tailer"??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by james e m, Feb 28, 2002.

  1. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    I'm looking at buying a Denon 3802 and you can find it at a non authorized on-line E-tailer for about $200 less than you can find it an authorized one. My question is, is it worth it? How long does the warranty last for anyways? I was just curious if I was safe buying it on line for cheaper than the $999 everyone else is selling it for? Thanks for your opinions and advice!

    james
     
  2. John M Miller

    John M Miller Stunt Coordinator

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    If you buy online from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is void. Maybe the receiver will work just fine, maybe it won't. But when I bought a second hand 1801 on the internet and it broke in two weeks, Denon wouldn't repair it.
     
  3. Ken Seeber

    Ken Seeber Supporting Actor

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    If I remember correctly, the warranty lasts at least two years. It may be longer on an upper-level model. You can find out at Denon's Web site.

    You can probably get a good price online at J & R. They won't be as cheap as an unauthorized e-tailor, but having that valid warranty is worth the money in my opinion.
     
  4. Rob Jo.

    Rob Jo. Agent

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    James,
    6th Ave (Steve) sold me a 3802 for 800.00 plus shipping. They are an aurthorized dealer. In fact, I'm having a problem with the receiver and they are swapping it out next week for another one, no problems at all. Here's their website link.
    6th Ave Website
    Hope this helps,
    Rob
     
  5. Mark Gurney

    Mark Gurney Stunt Coordinator

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    I would recommend buying from an authorized deal. If I remember correctly, the warranty on my Denon is two years. If anything goes wrong with that $1000 piece of equipment, I think it would less headache not to mention the repair cost if you could just turn it over to Denon/retailer.
     
  6. Brian Johnson

    Brian Johnson Supporting Actor

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    If my mind serves me. I remember reading posts that denon will honor any product sold that originated from DENON-USA It doesnt matter where the unit is purchased as long as the unit has a valid DENON-USA serial number on it. If you buy from non-authorized online vendor who knows where they get the unit(overseas) or like crazy eddies(wont come with a serial number at all)

    2 cents
     
  7. Mark Gurney

    Mark Gurney Stunt Coordinator

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    Below is directly from www.denon.com, under the Home Audio section. From this I would gather that not only will they not honor products lacking a serial number, but those purchased from unauthorized dealers. Personally, I just wouldn't want to take the chance especially on equipment in this price range.
    WARNING TO VALUED CONSUMERS:
    The warranty on DENON Electronics products is NOT VALID if the products have been purchased from an unauthorized dealer/on-line E-tailer OR if the original factory serial number has been removed, defaced or replaced in any way. Recently DENON Electronics has become aware of numerous instances in which such serial number tampering has occurred. Unauthorized dealers/on-line E-tailers and/or their suppliers frequently alter the serial numbers in an effort to prevent manufacturers from tracing the supplier source. DENON Electronics sell products through authorized retail and on-line channels to insure that consumers obtain quality pre-sale and after-sale support and service. PROTECT YOUR WARRANTY. Buy from an authorized DENON Electronics dealer/E-tailer. Check the unit and its packaging to determine whether the factory serial number may have been altered. If in doubt, call DENON Electronics at (973)396-0810.
    The above can be found at this URL http://www.denon.com/home/
     
  8. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,

    It used to be like that, but it seems that Denon recently has tightened the screws on Internet purchasing... well, not exactly on the purchasing, but on not-honoring the warranty. It really does not matter what is written on their Web site, you are not even supposed to know it's there. But Denon still can legitimately refuse to warrant their product if they have the disclaimer about non-authorized purchases written in the warranty agreement and the agreement is available outside the box, or the disclaimer is on the box itself so you can see it. I wonder if Denon actually Does that. Can anybody confirm?
     
  9. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi All,

    Warranty info or Denon's disclaimer... I spoke with a representative there today and he claims that Denon would NOT provide warranty service on any DENON product NOT purchased through an authorized dealer...

    However, he does also go on to say that it doesn't mean they won't SERVICE/FIX your product, it will be treated as an NON Warranty repair subject to you paying for the repair...

    So if you're worried about them NOT servicing it, DON'T they will service it... Just don't expect it to be a "free" repair...

    Hope that clarifies the matter, if not RE-READ Denon's disclaimer...

    I personally don't mind purchasing from NON Authorized dealers depends on the price right? Sure of course if the price is the same from Authorized then yeah, I'll buy from Authorized instead...

    The trick is, usually with the NON Authorized dealers they'll sell you a service contract to go the unit... Depending on the price, you still should wind up paying for the "extended" warranty and the unit at a cheaper price than the Authorized dealer...

    Is this still a risk? Sure, it is because you're relying on a third party for Insurance/Warranty claims NOT Denon/Manufacturer, so if there are any problems you would have to go through THEM and ONLY THEM... With a DENON warranty you can go to ANY DENON authorized service center for a free warranty repair... YMMV so Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)...

    Ultimately you have to decide whether or not it's worth it!!!

    Good Luck...

    -Alex
     
  10. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually it's absulotely irrelevant what a representative tells you, as it is irrelevant what's written on their Web site. The only thing that matters is the warranty argeement. This agrement is a binding contract between the purchaser and the manufacturer. If there is nothing on it stating that it is void if the unit was bought from "non-authorized" dealer, then it's against the Federal law to refuse the warranty services. The trick is that the law does not prohibit Denon from including any disclaimer on the agreement they want. As far as I know, such disclaimer was not on the Denon's agreement until last year, but they may have included it now. I wonder if anybody who recenty bought a Denon unit can read the agreement and see if it's there or not. If it's not there then it's absolutely safe buying on the Internet (of course if you are sure you are not buying grey market equipment but something intended to be sold in the US). If the disclaimer is there, then no luck.

    Anyway, search Google groups for something like "Denon and warranty and FTC and law", there is lots of information.
     
  11. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    This is turning into a very interesting thread! Thanks for the info everyone. I believe Anton is right, I think what is written on the actual warranty is what is binding, not the Denon web site warning. Does anyone have a copy of the info?

    james
     
  12. Mark Gurney

    Mark Gurney Stunt Coordinator

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    I am interested to get home and read my warranty information, just out of curiosity (my receiver was purchased within the last 6 months). Wouldn't it seem illogical (Spock is that you?) for Denon to post this information on their web site and then not enforce it in their warranty documentation?
    Unless....there is some dark scheme between Denon and authorized dealers to influence us to purchase from authorized dealers rather than discounted non-authorized dealers. Hmm...I sense a conspiracy here... [​IMG]
    Mark
     
  13. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Guys,
    Venting "ON"
    Sorry to "burst" your bubble, but, I used to work in a service center and we checked serial #'s and original receipts...
    All repairs/service costs money to perform... When unit is IN WARRANTY "manufacturer" pays the service center (as verified via serial # and receipt, which needs to be submitted to claims dept. of Manufacturer), user walks away happy once unit is working 100% again...
    IF on the other hand Manufacturer claims that they will NOT honor payment for the service, then service center kindly informs the customer this is "OUT of warranty because of so & so, so if you need/want to have this repaired it will cost $x.xx... Do you want us to service this or would you like to take your unit back...?"
    DENON does NOT prevent you from getting your unit serviced... It's just OUT of pocket money for you...
    If you STILL don't want to BELIEVE me as a 2nd hand source, please feel free to contact Rich Asgemoden or Jeff Talmadge at DENON directly and they'll be able to tell you first hand what I've already explained...
    Here is their number (973)396-0810
    You can spout about legal rights this or legal rights that BUT remember bottom line is when you're standing there at the service counter with defective unit in hand after finding out NO MONEY, NO SERVICE, and then spout off about legal rights... See how quickly you'll get the cold shoulder and/or if you're really REALLY RUDE see how quickly you would get "escorted" out of the service center...
    Hopefully this is as BLACK and WHITE as it can possibly get, and this will be the LAST time I'm going to resond to this thread, if you have any further questions regarding this issue contact DENON directly as I've already provided the number for you...
    Venting "Off"
    My apologies to all for:
    1. If my explanation was not necessary for you because this was academic and/or common knowledge
    2. If I "ranted" too loudly, but when I used to work for the service center, I would get "LOUD/OBNOXIOUS" customers yelling at us that repairs should be covered for free and they don't have to pay... [​IMG]
    Life's too short, if you're worried about the warranty and don't want to take the "risk" of having to pay for the SERVICE, BUY from Authorized dealer, think of the "extra" money you're spending through Authorized dealer as an EXTENDED warranty!!! [​IMG]
    Good Luck to you all...
    -Alex
     
  14. RichS

    RichS Auditioning

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    For those of you who have American Express Blue (don't know if this applies to other American Express cards) cards, you can buy your Denon at an authorized dealer, giving him or her your business and then use Blue's Price Protection plan to get the difference back between what you paid at the dealer (not including tax) and what an internet site charges (not including shipping). You get the best price plus the warrenty to boot.
     
  15. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

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    Alex,
    It's not importand what Rich or Jeff or Joe or anybody else at Denon told you. If the warranty agreement does not say anything about voiding the warranty if a unit was not bought from an "authorized" dealer, I would not stand at the counter ("loud/obnoxious") spitting anything.I'd go to court, but most likely Denon will not let it go that far. In fact Denon has been servicing equipment bought on the Internet with no problems. Search Google, you'll find some facts.
    Question is, have they modified the warranty agreement or not. Tehy may have, but it's easy to check. Anybody?
    Oh, here is some night reading: [​IMG]
    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch50.html
    http://www.mycounsel.com/content/refunds/warranties/
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...y/undermag.htm
     
  16. RichS

    RichS Auditioning

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    Go to court for a $200 repair - I don't think so. Even small clains court wouldn't be worth your time and filing fees.
    Then again - there is always Judge Judy!!![​IMG]
     
  17. Mark Gurney

    Mark Gurney Stunt Coordinator

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we have gotten a little off track.
    Alex -- Personally, I wasn't saying that authorized service centers would refuse to repair a broken unit if it was purchased from an unauthorized dealer. In fact, I am sure that they'd repair any unit brought in. My point, from what I understand Denon is saying is this:
    When a Denon product is purchased from an unauthorized dealer, there is no Denon warranty. You are more than welcome to take this unit to any Denon authorized dealer for repair, but they will charge you repair cost because there was no warranty sold with the unit. Denon does not offer a warranty when purchased from and unauthorized dealer. This disadvantage can be avoided if the unauthorized dealer offers a warranty of their own. Some dealers do this, but all charge extra for this warranty. As the buyer, you have to decide if you want the warranty and if you do, if you are still saving when compared to buying from an authorized dealer.
    Of course this is from what I have read and interpretted. I've been known to be wrong a time or two [​IMG]. Is there anyone who gathered the same or do I need to lay off the pipe?
    Mark
     
  18. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Mark,

    Absolutely correct purchase 3rd party warranty check out my first post:

    The trick is, usually with the NON Authorized dealers they'll sell you a service contract to go the unit... Depending on the price, you still should wind up paying for the "extended" warranty and the unit at a cheaper price than the Authorized dealer...

    Jaeem, AntonS,

    Please remember, that I WORKED (actual experience) in a service repair center, you can still try to state your claim with the agent, you can say what you will but UNLESS Denon says "YES, we authorize and will pay for the repair..." It's out of pocket for the customer end user... Unless you want to drag DENON into court or open up a CLASS Action lawsuit with DENON and you win then DENON would be LEGALLY bound to honor ALL warranty Authorized or Unauthorized...

    Litigation is your given right if you think something is wrong, and you are free to pursuit it, but until you actually FILE the case, get a court date, DRAG Denon through the Litigation process and actually WIN, Denon still makes the decision and they WILL NOT honor the warranty from NON authorized dealers... Again, No Money, No service, sorry honey next in line please...

    If you want feel free to argue your case to Jeff or Rich at DENON, hey it's cheaper than trying to start a CLASS action lawsuit!!!

    -Alex
     
  19. Ken Seeber

    Ken Seeber Supporting Actor

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    You wouldn't need to file a class action lawsuit. A formal complaint with the state attorney general's office and a small claims suit that would cost about $65 to file is all it would take. If they lost, Denon would have to reimburse the filing fee, but my guess is they'd cover the repair before it got to that point.

    This argument, of course, is entirely pointless if the warranty that comes packaged with the equipment contains the "authorized dealer" requirement in writing. I suspect that it does.

    If anyone has their Denon documentation handy, it would settle this whole stupid argument if you could look at it and let us know.
     
  20. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Ken,
    You're absolutely right, with regards about settling this whole matter by reading the warranty card/certification...
    All NEW warranty cards from DENON will DEFINATELY have the new Warranty disclaimer again NON Authorized dealers...
    Older warranty cards may or may not have this info...
    Whether or not DENON will honor the warranty on older units is ultimately up to DENON... [​IMG]
    To all, I'm REALLY REALLY sorry to be the bearer of bad news, it just that I've worked in the industry and I don't want to see anyone else get burned so if I'm sounding a little "harsh" in these posts it because I want you all to be forewarned on all FUTURE purchases...
    Good luck all...
    -Alex
     

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