Is it time to talk about coronavirus? (1 Viewer)

[TJPC]

Ontario reports only 33 new cases today. Lowest since March.

 

[Mark Booth]

Science has proven what I've suspected since this all began (and why I wore masks on airline flights in early March when NOBODY else was wearing one)... Aerosolized infected respiratory particles CAN infect cells. It's NOT just that you have to be relatively close to an infected person. It CAN float across a room, reach a new host, and cause infection (if enough particles are inhaled).

‘A Smoking Gun’: Infectious Coronavirus Retrieved From Hospital Air (Published 2020)

Airborne virus plays a significant role in community transmission, many experts believe. A new study fills in the missing piece: Floating virus can infect cells.

www.nytimes.com

From the article:

“This is what people have been clamoring for,” said Linsey Marr, an expert in airborne spread of viruses who was not involved in the work. “It’s unambiguous evidence that there is infectious virus in aerosols.”

Mark

 

[ChristopherG]

Seems like the media discovers that a virus can be airborne every other week. Not sure why this is a huge surprise to anyone - doesn't the flu work this way as well?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Aren’t we wearing face masks because this virus is airborne?

 

[David Weicker]

Reading the article, some questions occurred to me as to its validity.

Airborne - yes. Airborne to the degree this study implies - not so sure.

Since they have to do several alterations just to take measurements, is a normal environment without these alterations just as transmissive?

And what was measured didn't correlate to what they expected (the additional RNA percentage). So is something else going on that is causing this to occur.

 

[Malcolm R]

Yes, I hate to sound like one of "those people," but the info in that article does seem to allow the possibility that the process was manipulated in an attempt that was more likely to prove a desired outcome.

Though if true, it's amazing that within 6 months the guidance has almost turned completely opposite. In February, we were assured that to contract the virus we had to make physical contact with something that had virus on it then touch our face, mouth, or nose. That's why we were scrubbing our groceries and boiling our mail. If we washed our hands we'd be fine, and that we should not wear masks if we did not have actual symptoms. Now some seem to be telling us that the virus is flying freely through the air all around us and if we don't wear masks we'll probably all die.

No wonder there's such confusion about everything related to this pandemic. I'm following current guidance on wearing masks and distancing (minor things to do if they truly keep us safer), but I can understand why some might be confused.

I'm hoping the recent theories about past vaccinations providing some level of protection are possibly accurate, as well. I get the flu vaccine every year and have had most every other vaccination offered by modern medicine.

 

[Mark Booth]

The swiftness in the spread of the infection tells you all you need to know. If 63 people spent 3 hours in choir practice with 1 person having the flu, there’s no way that 52 of them would come down with the flu. Ditto for a common cold. But it happened with COVID.

AIRBORNE and not just to the persons within 6 feet.

The early no mask necessary ”recommendations“ were bunk. That was motivated mostly out of concern for maintaining supplies of masks for healthcare workers.

Mark

 

[TravisR]

Though if true, it's amazing that within 6 months the guidance has almost turned completely opposite. In February, we were assured that to contract the virus we had to make physical contact with something that had virus on it then touch our face, mouth, or nose. That's why we were scrubbing our groceries and boiling our mail. If we washed our hands we'd be fine, and that we should not wear masks if we did not have actual symptoms. Now some seem to be telling us that the virus is flying freely through the air all around us and if we don't wear masks we'll probably all die.

No wonder there's such confusion about everything related to this pandemic. I'm following current guidance on wearing masks and distancing (minor things to do if they truly keep us safer), but I can understand why some might be confused.

I'd agree with you if it was April but it's basically the middle of August so there's no confusion about masks any more. People are well aware of the recommendation of wearing them and are either following the advice or just ignoring it at this point.

 

[DaveF]

From last month, this discusses the debate and nuances of “airborne” (aerosol) vs droplet transmission.

Is SARS-CoV-2 airborne? Questions abound—but here’s what we know

A look at the data on aerosol transmission.

arstechnica.com

At one end of the spectrum, there are relatively large droplets, launched often from coughs and sneezes, that have the trajectory of ballistic missiles. These tiny droplets of respiratory secretions can be loaded with infectious virus, cozy in their moist bubbles. But as they are relatively heavy, these droplets tend to fall rapidly to the ground and often don’t make it farther than a meter or two from their launch site.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are aerosols. These are often defined as being less than 5 micrometers in diameter (a micrometer is one-millionth of a meter. For reference, the width of a human hair can range from around 20 micrometers to nearly 200 micrometers.) Aerosols—which are sometimes called droplet nuclei—are lighter than respiratory droplets and can hang in the air, potentially for hours. They can also travel much farther from their launch site, easily traversing and swirling around a large room.

There are some important worries over coronavirus spreading by aerosol:

1. The 6’ distance guide could be ineffective, as that’s based on droplet spread
2. the cloth masks most people are wearing offer little or no reduction or protection against aerosol spread
   

My take is that the experts believe it’s both droplet and aerosol distribution. But the aerosol componen has been very hard to prove scientifically.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

To point #2, the point of the cloth mask is more to prevent the wearer from spreading their own germs than it is to protect a wearer from receiving someone else’s germs.

But that’s also why the recommendation is six feet and a mask, not either/or.

And that’s why indoor activities are not great ideas right now. Indoor restaurant service, attending the movies, any sort of voluntary indoor activity that you don’t have to do is an unnecessary risk that comes with potential ramifications that reverberate far beyond the individual who chooses to partake.

I think in general people have been too quick to look at all of this as either/or, rather than the idea that each component is a piece in the armor. Socially distance. Wear a mask. Don’t participate in leisure activities indoors.

 

[Mark Booth]

To point #2, the point of the cloth mask is more to prevent the wearer from spreading their own germs than it is to protect a wearer from receiving someone else’s germs.

But that’s also why the recommendation is six feet and a mask, not either/or.

And that’s why indoor activities are not great ideas right now. Indoor restaurant service, attending the movies, any sort of voluntary indoor activity that you don’t have to do is an unnecessary risk that comes with potential ramifications that reverberate far beyond the individual who chooses to partake.

I think in general people have been too quick to look at all of this as either/or, rather than the idea that each component is a piece in the armor. Socially distance. Wear a mask. Don’t participate in leisure activities indoors.

EXACTLY!

It can‘t be said loudly enough... The primary reason to wear a mask is to protect others. But you still need to stay at least 6 feet apart and avoid indoor public gatherings.

If EVERYONE had followed that starting in March, a LOT of lives would have been saved.

Mark

 

[DaveF]

To point #2, the point of the cloth mask is more to prevent the wearer from spreading their own germs than it is to protect a wearer from receiving someone else’s germs.

The worry is the (simple, woven cloth) face coverings most people wear are thought, backed by some data, ineffective against stopping aerosols. They don’t block aerosol spread by spreader or receiver.

 

[Kevin Hewell]

The early no mask necessary ”recommendations“ were bunk. That was motivated mostly out of concern for maintaining supplies of masks for healthcare workers.

This! When anti-maskers use the early recommendations to not wear masks now, it makes no sense. This is the reason the CDC and other health care officials issued that at the beginning.

We should have had those supplies to begin with.

 

[Mark Booth]

The worry is the (simple, woven cloth) face coverings most people wear are thought, backed by some data, ineffective against stopping aerosols. They don’t block aerosol spread by spreader or receiver.

Recent testing indicated neck gaiters and bandanas were poor choices for preventing aerosols spread. Even a 1-ply cotton mask was reasonably effective, multiple plies was better.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full.pdf

If people actually purchase and use a sewn cloth MASK, instead of PRETENDING they are wearing a mask by wearing a neck gaiter or bandana, then spread is reduced.

I saw a guy wearing a neck gaiter in the grocery store today. I politely mentioned the above study, pointing out that neck gaiters were ranked worse than wearing nothing at all. He politely said he doesn’t give a f, he only wears the neck gaiter because he had to wear something to get in the store. Otherwise, he thinks it’s all a bunch of BS.

Science means nothing to those that lack the ability to apply critical thinking.

Mark

 

[Malcolm R]

At this point, if you can get certain people to wear any type of face covering, I think you have to just consider that a victory.

I was in a supermarket last night with big signs on the door, "No Mask, No Entry." Several people walking around the store without masks.

 

[jayembee]

I was in a supermarket last night with big signs on the door, "No Mask, No Entry." Several people walking around the store without masks.

Well, they apparently took the sign literally. They wore a mask in order to enter the store, and once in, they figured they didn't need it anymore.

 

[Malcolm R]

I assume that's what some are doing in places where staff are at the door monitoring such things, but this store had no one even checking at the door.

 

[DaveF]

At this point, if you can get certain people to wear any type of face covering, I think you have to just consider that a victory.

I was in a supermarket last night with big signs on the door, "No Mask, No Entry." Several people walking around the store without masks.

Because $10/hr part time retail employees don’t want to screamed at or physically assaulted or worse trying to enforce corporate policy.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Because $10/hr part time retail employees don’t want to screamed at or physically assaulted or worse trying to enforce corporate policy.

Also, I suspect some of those people just took off their masks after entering the store.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

IHME is now projecting nearly 300,000 deaths in the US by December 1, which would make COVID-19 more deadly to Americans than all but two armed conflicts (World War II and the Civil War). We'll probably pass World War I by mid-September.

New York State has been under 1,000 new positives a day for a while now.