Is it time to talk about coronavirus? (1 Viewer)

[jcroy]

So extremely tired of this anti-science stupidity on display in so many places in our society.

I doubt it is just strictly stupidity and/or ignorance.

My guess is it has more to do with the notion of "it can't happen to me" and/or "I'll take my chances" type of thinking. I have acquaintences/friends who think exactly in this manner, in spite of having highly technical/scientific backgrounds (including medicine, biochemistry, etc ...).

Basically purely extreme egotism, plain and simple.

 

[Mark Booth]

Personally, I think every American should be mandated to wear a mask. Fines are given immediately to those who don't

That's the only way to contain this pandemic that has grown to apocalyptic proportions.

Thing is, constitutionally, I don't think anyone can mandate everyone to wear a mask.

Furthermore, if leaders in our country disagree that masks should be worn, then there is no way such a mandate would ever be made.

The government has amble legal authority to enact measures that affect personal freedoms during times of emergency. Read:

A Constitutional Guide to Emergency Powers

The COVID-19 pandemic has led to extraordinary restraints on liberty, from international travel bans to state and local orders that businesses shut down, individuals avoid large assemblies and even stay home, and infected patients remain in quarantine. Depending on the epidemic’s progress, even...

www.heritage.org

Today's morons would have had a really tough time during World War II when all Americans were required to live with rationing and shortages of MANY products. Not to mention seeing their children drafted and sent off to war to possibly die.

The only "sacrifice" these people are being mandated to make is to wear a mask. Florida isn't in lockdown anymore. They just want them to wear a mask. And these selfish, moronic, waste of brain cells idiots can't be bothered. There are thousands more like them in this country and it is going to be the death of us all.

Moderator: Deleted, do not post again!

Mark

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I'm with you, Mark. We have lost the war. And it's a shame. With proper leadership, we could have beat this virus.

Decades from now, people will look back in complete horror as to how this pandemic was handled (or not handled)

Take care of yourself and let the ignorant take the risks.

 

[Mark Booth]

I doubt it is just strictly stupidity and/or ignorance.

My guess is it has more to do with the notion of "it can't happen to me" and/or "I'll take my chances" type of thinking. I have acquaintences/friends who think exactly in this manner, in spite of having highly technical/scientific backgrounds (including medicine, biochemistry, etc ...).

Many of these people believe that the virus is a hoax. They are so freakin' stupid their own spouse could die in front of their eyes from the virus and they'd continue to deny that the virus exists.

Mark

 

[Mark Booth]

I'm with you, Mark. We have lost the war. And it's a shame. With proper leadership, we could have beat this virus.

Decades from now, people will look back in complete horror as to how this pandemic was handled (or not handled)

Take care of yourself and let the ignorant take the risks.

My wife is having a more difficult time with the stay-at-home than I am. She's only been out of the house 5 times since March 21 and all 5 times she remained in the car. At least I get the opportunity to do the shopping about once a week. I wear DOUBLE masks (a P95 and a cloth mask over that).

We have done 2 social distance dinners with another couple in the last month. We do it on our patio where the other couple can sit at one table and we can sit 12+ feet away. I set up a TV tray in the middle that is "Switzerland". We don't go near the TV tray when they are near it and vice-versa. We only take our masks off to eat and, again, we are 12+ feet away at the time (and outdoors). When the other couple arrives they go directly to the backyard via the side of the house. They never enter our home. When the need for a comfort break arrives, it's their cue to head for home. They live only 15 minutes away.

We plan to continue to entertain this way for the foreseeable future. Given the conditions we maintain, we feel the odds are really really low that we'd give them anything and vice-versa. Not zero, but probably pretty close to zero. They are also being exceedingly careful and rarely leaving the house. We have other friends that I wouldn't let in my backyard if they paid me, they are being too careless in their everyday activities.

Ron, you take care as well!

Mark

 

[jcroy]

Many of these people believe that the virus is a hoax. They are so freakin' stupid their own spouse could die in front of their eyes from the virus and they'd continue to deny that the virus exists.

My suspicion is this style of "thinking" might have to do a lot with peer pressure in their local social groups, than actual willful ignorance/stupidity.

I have several folks in my local social circles, who were exactly like this. It was purely a game of "one upmanship", while in private behind closed doors they knew exactly what was going on and took measures to not spread. Not much more than a "dick waving" contest in public (both figuratively and literally).

 

[Mark Booth]

My suspicion is this style of "thinking" might have to do a lot with peer pressure in their local social groups, than actual willful ignorance/stupidity.

I have several folks in my local social circles, who were exactly like this. It was purely a game of "one upmanship", while in private behind closed doors they knew exactly what was going on and took measures to not spread. Not much more than a "dick waving" contest in public (both figuratively and literally).

Sorry, but the illiteracy of most of those individuals in the video was abundantly clear. They are stupid.

And I'm not suggesting it is willful stupidity, they were born stupid. You can't fix stupid.

Mark

 

[Robert Crawford]

The next person that makes a political reference in this thread will be banned from it. Just because you're upset with how this pandemic is being handled doesn't mean you can disregard our posting guidelines regarding no-political talk.

Edit: Furthermore, Ownership and the Moderator Staff are concerned with the number of vitriolic posts in this thread. That needs to stop, otherwise, we will have no choice, but to close this thread down. Going forward such posts will be deleted and those that post them will be subject to being banned from this thread. We can't allow such emotional and personal comments to become the norm in our community.

There will not be any further warnings!

 

[Clinton McClure]

Meanwhile, there are 92 cases at the state-ran intermediate care facility where my wife works, including residents and staff.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

(edited by author)

 

[DaveF]

The next person that makes a political reference in this thread will be banned from it. Just because you're upset with how this pandemic is being handled doesn't mean you can disregard our posting guidelines regarding no-political talk.

Edit: Furthermore, Ownership and the Moderator Staff are concerned with the number of vitriolic posts in this thread. That needs to stop, otherwise, we will have no choice, but to close this thread down. Going forward such posts will be deleted and those that post them will be subject to being banned from this thread. We can't allow such emotional and personal comments to become the norm in our community.

There will not be any further warnings!

Posts being deleted that flagrantly ignore Crawdaddy's comment.

 

[DaveF]

Random topics:

Italy could be nearing ‘herd immunity’ from coronavirus

Italy could be nearing herd immunity as more than half of residents tested in its worst-hit province have coronavirus antibodies. Bergamo, in the country’s northern region, has recorded that …

nypost.com

Does Italy have herd immunity subsequent to their early outbreak and containment failure? Maybe in Bergamo, their epicenter. But that's the northern region. What about Central and Southern Italy? What about Rome, Florence, Naples, etc? I'm unconvinced by my quick reads that Italy as a nation is through this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/experts-dispute-reports-coronavirus-is-becoming-less-lethal/2020/06/01/8f8ace7c-a432-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html

Is the coronavirus / COVID19 weakening, especially in Italy? As with the above, a coworker was making the case this is so. Viruses weaken over time, become less lethal, and this is happening in Italy. But contra that view: the timescale of a virus becoming less lethal tends to be year(s), not five months. Also, this cogent counter-argument:

... Dr Seema Yasmin, an epidemiologist from Stanford University, saying the idea was “bulls***”.

Coronavirus is ‘weakening’ and virus will die out Italian expert sa...

A CORONAVIRUS expert has claimed that coronavirus may die out without a vaccine.

www.express.co.uk

And this more thorough article

Is the Coronavirus Really Getting Weaker?

There are several explanations for why the virus doesn't seem as bad in some places.

www.bloomberg.com

It would be terribly wonderful if this virus would just up and leave on its own after a few months trouble. But...I don't believe it. Not without hard data.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Personally, I think every American should be mandated to wear a mask. Fines are given immediately to those who don't

That's the only way to contain this pandemic that has grown to apocalyptic proportions.

Thing is, constitutionally, I don't think anyone can mandate everyone to wear a mask.

Furthermore, if leaders in our country disagree that masks should be worn, then there is no way such a mandate would ever be made.

I think the issue is the whole thing is really on the honor system and relies on people using common sense. The only way to mandate it is if people are refused entry into any public space without a mask. I have been in 6 states over the last week, all East Coast, the signs are up on all locations that masks are mandatory to enter any building.

I spoke to friends that just came back from a trip to Ohio and they said in Ohio only employees and workers in buildings were required to wear masks, the public entering the buildings do not have to mask up. That seems like a big mistake.

 

[jcroy]

But contra that view: the timescale of a virus becoming less lethal tends to be year(s), not five months.

It would be terribly wonderful if this virus would just up and leave on its own after a few months trouble. But...I don't believe it. Not without hard data.

There also might be issues of anti bodies declining. There was a recent paper published about this.

Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies

The results, while preliminary, suggest that survivors of SARS-CoV-2 infection may be susceptible to reinfection within weeks or months.

www.the-scientist.com

Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections - Nature Medicine

A cohort of asymptomatic patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 had significantly lower levels of virus-specific IgG antibodies compared to a cohort of age- and sex-matched symptomatic infected patients.

www.nature.com

Though it would be better to wait for further studies with a larger sized sample.

If further studies hold up, this means that "herd immunity" might be almost useless.

 

[Malcolm R]

The only way to mandate it is if people are refused entry into any public space without a mask. I have been in 6 states over the last week, all East Coast, the signs are up on all locations that masks are mandatory to enter any building.

But even if the signs are up, it's still up to the staff/employees to enforce them. One of the conditions here, mandated by the state, of restaurants reopening for inside dining was that customers wear masks at all times when they are not seated at their table (entering, exiting, going to restroom). At a restaurant last night, the manager walked an unmasked couple all the way though the dining room. When they left their table, they also did not wear masks. I did not hear the manager say anything to them about their lack of masks.

People don't care about signs. If no one is willing to enforce them, they think they can just disregard them. The big stores around here are still trying to get people to shop one-way in the aisles. Almost no one is obeying these signs, either.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The enforcement issue is tricky because the reaction to the request in some cases has been hostility and threats of violence. I don’t necessarily think it’s fair that the burden of enforcement ends up falling on someone making minimum wage or close to it. It’s not worth getting close enough to an unmasked person where there could be an exposure risk. It’s not worth confronting someone that might spit on you, shove you or pull a weapon out at you. Do I think everyone without a mask is going to turn violent in the blink of an eye? No, of course not. At least some people are genuinely confused about what’s being asked of them in each particular situation. But if I was working at a restaurant or office or whatever, I’d be wary of being the person who says something. It’s sad that that’s the situation.

For now I just try to steer clear of bad looking situations and vote with my dollars. I just moved and there’s a deli around the corner. I was pretty excited to have a deli right near me. Went in and the lady behind the counter (who had a mask and gloves on) made me a nice looking sandwich. The owner rung me up, wasn’t wearing a mask, and commented about how he couldn’t wear them because they weren’t comfortable. It wasn’t a long interaction, I didn’t get sick and I wasn’t really worried that I was going to. But it was like, okay, I’m not going to shop there again. I wasn’t looking for an argument or a debate, and I had no interest in offering my two cents. It was a much simpler “oh bummer, not gonna come back here again, that’s a shame”.

I’m getting the feeling that for better or worse we’re really all on our own when it comes to keeping ourselves safe. I’m trying to look for people and places that make me feel comfortable by sharing the same approach I have during this rather than going to places where people don’t, and if that limits some of my options, well, the silver lining is that I have infant twins that take up most of my day, a wife I love spending time with, lots of home entertainment options and the ability to cook most of the foods I enjoy.

 

[DaveF]

Without defending or accusing such shop owners: I can sympathize with him. A local takeout pizza I like, when the requirement for masks in stores took effect, the owner commented ruefully that they are now having to wear masks in the kitchen full time. At my office, people struggle to put on masks in common hallways; much less wear them for an eight hour day sitting in front of a computer. How much harder must it be to wear a mask in a hot kitchen, standing, moving, all day?

I hope for everyone in indoor public spaces to wear masks. But I also want to acknoweldge the discomfort for employees and owners is real.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I get that it’s new and weird.

I also think a lot of people who say that masks are uncomfortable aren’t giving it a chance, there is a learning curve. I have two brands of medical masks and one fits me better than the other. I have a few cloth masks and one is the clear winner for me, and one that isn’t at all comfortable for me is a great fit for my wife. I think some people are too quick to let their first reactor be their last reaction.

My state has pretty stringent guidelines. They’re there to keep us all safe. I’m not intended on being the world’s police and reporting businesses that aren’t following guidelines. That’s an unwinnable, uphill battle at this point. I just know I don’t feel safe when people don’t follow the guidelines, and I simply won’t spend my money at places I don’t feel safe at.

 

[jcroy]

(Without getting into politics).

More generally, one could ask what the world will be if there is no effective vaccine is ever found. There have been past precedents of no vaccine ever being found, such as hiv/aids.

The transmission mechanism of covid is much more insidious than hiv, where the latter's transmission was much more specific (ie. blood work, sex, etc ...).

 

[jcroy]

(Since this is a tv/movie message board).

If a vaccine is not found, I'm guessing movie or tv productions might go in the direction of less and less people on set. In place of this, productions might be using more and more cgi to "fill in the background", such as "crowd" scenes.

If cgi advances greatly, it might even reach the point where it is almost indistinguishable from real life images/footage. In such a scenario, studios could just hire actors to do voices over cgi generated footage (similar to current animation).