Is it time to talk about coronavirus?

ManW_TheUncool

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It pisses me off so much because if everyone in the country/world who didn’t believe this was as big of a deal as it is came to live at my address for a week, it would be an eye opening experience. No need for me to repeat what I’ve already said a thousand times in this thread but it’s just so frustrating. If people in general heard the number of sirens I heard, saw the refrigerated trucks lined up in the street, saw the sidewalk converted into extra hospital space, saw it go on for weeks without end, then maybe they’d understand how naive and ill considered all of these little “bargaining” questions are. What if I go to the movies but we sit apart? What if we eat brunch with masks half on? What if we go to the beach but don’t play with others? What if we just meet outside for coffee six feet away? If people saw the sheer misery of this thing up close, if they saw how it overwhelms the medical system, if they really truly understood that an outbreak means you might call “911” for help and be told that there was no help available to be provided, maybe they’d realize how unimportant all of that other stuff is. And I realize I may be coming off as an asshole, but when you’ve seen how bad this gets up close, it’s hard not to want to react incredulously (or worse) when someone else has a temper tantrum over not getting to see a movie or having to stay home.
But that's precisely it. IF people saw the same thing as you... which a whole lot of people do/have not... and it's not really their fault to not have that staring them in the face, except the doctors, nurses, et al you mentioned (which is its own strange reality)...

I also actually live near a NYC hospital (in Brooklyn... roughly 5min walk away), and I have not personally seen nor heard what you describe (in how very visibly overwhelmed it is). Of course, I don't doubt your description one bit, but it does seem a bit anecdotal instead of being prevalent and illustrative of the overall hospitalization situation even for NYC. And we can't really expect people to all think and behave as you believe absolutely necessary given the large disparity in experiences.

I suspect the worst of it (like your local hospital situation) is clustered around some specific locations (and demographics), not everywhere in NYC. Not sure what's driving that beyond the resident demographic that might be more vulnerable to and/or impacted by this pandemic...

And it's not like Brooklyn hasn't been hit similarly hard in terms of confirmed infection count, but maybe it's much worse in certain other (less gentrified?) parts of the borough...

IF I sound like I'm downplaying the situation and/or the risks, that's certainly not my intention, but can't expect everyone to feel quite the same way as you do if they all really cannot see for themselves what you see, especially because it really hasn't happened in most places... probably not in/around most hospitals outside NYC -- it's not even clear to me whether it's quite that prevalent amongst NYC hospitals given how it is (not) in my neck of the woods...

_Man_
 
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The Obsolete Man

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I don't want to sound like I'm saying "I hope so" to something that terrible but I hope that if things gets bad, people and the government are willing to go the hell back home.
Not a chance in hell.

There will still be a large percentage of dumb assholes screaming "BUT MUH FREEDUMBS! I WANNA GO TO TH' BEECH!!!"

The Governor of Virginia is supposed to be mandating masks next week. Okay, cool. Not a big deal, I just need to find some masks. But go and read the comments in a Local paper's article, and all you see is stupid shit like "What right does he have to make me do this!?!?!" and "He's believing faulty science, Masks don't help" and all sorts of other dumb shit from people who think they know better than everyone else and don't want to take the simplest, cheapest, easiest steps to maybe help someone else because they just don't give a good goddamn about anyone beyond their own nose.

If millions were to die, these dumb bastards would still be screaming about how they know best, nothing is wrong, it's just like the flu, and we all need to go back to work and keep everything open. They don't care about people, just that the side they agree with is 100% right and anything that doesn't fit the narrative they've been spoonfed is wrong.
 

Francois Caron

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The death rate of Coved is always compared to the death rate of the flu. Is it possible for a person to have the bug for the flu but show no symptoms?
It's possible if you've received the vaccine or you've already caught it before. The only catch is that the bug doesn't stand a chance against a well prepared immune system. The individual might even have symptoms that only last a few hours before they go away. I've had that happen to me a few times. I thought I was coming down with something, and the next morning I felt perfectly fine.
 

DaveF

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Good, short consideration on current estimates of case fatality rate. Makes case that CDC’s numbers are too low, it may be 0.8% to 1.2%

ah, but there’s a nuance I’m not understanding yet:
No because this is symptomatic CFR and they are assuming 20% or 50% asymptomatic in these models.
A little more, in a straightforward article.
 
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jayembee

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I 100% think that’s what will happen. When the rest of the country looks in a month like NYC looked, hopefully people will wake up.
Back in the wake of 9/11, I used to say that if the terrorists wanted to strike fear in the heart of America, they'd ignore all the obvious big-city targets and plan something major in small town Heartland America.

This virus is a similar situation. It's when this devastates the rural areas instead of the urban dens of the "coastal elites" that a lot more people might start taking it a lot more seriously.
 
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Francois Caron

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The only catch is that rural people don't come into close contact with one another as frequently as city folk. Even if the virus appears in a rural town, there might not be enough people getting sick to make much of a difference.

Unless they all go to church together and one of them is infectious, don't expect much.
 

Carlo Medina

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The only catch is that rural people don't come into close contact with one another as frequently as city folk.
I know, I know. When I visit my parents who live in a rural area, the constant FarmersOnly.com commercials keep reminding me that "city folk just don't get it."
 

TravisR

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Not a chance in hell.

There will still be a large percentage of dumb assholes screaming "BUT MUH FREEDUMBS! I WANNA GO TO TH' BEECH!!!"
Ultimately I think for alot of people, it's all about location and a lack of empathy. If bodies are piled up in the streets somewhere that they aren't, it's not really that big of a deal. If it's happening around them and people that they know are dropping out then it's a serious situation.
 
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LeoA

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With NYC that overwhelmed, I wonder why they weren't taking advantage of the hospital ship that was there.

I believe I read she had a total of 15 patients about a week after she was setup in the harbor for service.
 

Wayne_j

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With NYC that overwhelmed, I wonder why they weren't taking advantage of the hospital ship that was there.

I believe I read she had a total of 15 patients about a week after she was setup in the harbor for service.
It took a while before the Navy would allow the ship to be used for Covid patients.
 

LeoA

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Only 5 or 6 days as I recall.

And with NYC hospitals completely overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients, I'm at a loss why normal ailments requiring hospitalization amounted to almost nothing aboard her before that switch.

And after the decision was made to accept COVID-19 patients, she was only receiving patients for two or three weeks before closing up and preparing to head back to the reserve fleet, not needed any longer by NYC presumably.

I think I saw 150 or thereabouts for the number of cases she handled in total when she left last month to head back into mothballs. Seems like she was criminally underused by NYC.
 

Josh Steinberg

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From what I understand, there was a lot of red tape from the Navy/federal government end which made it nearly impossible to send patients there. I don’t think it was for lack of trying from the city or the hospital system.
 

Clinton McClure

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It pisses me off so much because if everyone in the country/world who didn’t believe this was as big of a deal as it is came to live at my address for a week, it would be an eye opening experience. No need for me to repeat what I’ve already said a thousand times in this thread but it’s just so frustrating. If people in general heard the number of sirens I heard, saw the refrigerated trucks lined up in the street, saw the sidewalk converted into extra hospital space, saw it go on for weeks without end, then maybe they’d understand how naive and ill considered all of these little “bargaining” questions are. What if I go to the movies but we sit apart? What if we eat brunch with masks half on? What if we go to the beach but don’t play with others? What if we just meet outside for coffee six feet away? If people saw the sheer misery of this thing up close, if they saw how it overwhelms the medical system, if they really truly understood that an outbreak means you might call “911” for help and be told that there was no help available to be provided, maybe they’d realize how unimportant all of that other stuff is. And I realize I may be coming off as an asshole, but when you’ve seen how bad this gets up close, it’s hard not to want to react incredulously (or worse) when someone else has a temper tantrum over not getting to see a movie or having to stay home.
I really wish I could have stayed at home for the past couple of months. The Dept. of Homeland Security defines my job as an essential critical infrastructure worker so I have had to go out in the thick of this every single day since the pandemic began. Every service employee of my company across the country has. My primary client where my office is located has been shut down twice because of employees who tested positive for Covid-19. During this time, I still had to provide backup support to other clients in the state and drive out to their sites when they had equipment trouble. I had to go get tested because I was exposed twice at work to two different client employees who tested positive. Thankfully, my test result came back negative. I’m constantly alarmed, floored, and outright pissed off by the number of people I see out in public and at their jobs who are not wearing masks and are not practicing social distancing... People acting like this is no big deal. People who, contrary to the actual facts being reported every day, act as though this is all some big conspiracy theory meant to enslave the “sheep”. People who piss and moan about not being able to go eat at Denny’s because they require a mask to enter the restaurant and their rights are being trampled on if they refuse to wear one and are barred entry. People I see blowing or wiping their uncovered nose with their hand then immediately touching the equipment I have been sent out to service. I wash and sanitize my hands so frequently, my knuckles are cracked open and seep blood if I make a tight fist. I wear a mask from the time I get out of my car at 5:30 AM to get my temp checked by my client’s company nurse so I am allowed entry to my office and I don’t take it off (except to eat or drink coffee in my office with the door closed) until I leave work late in the afternoon.
Arkansas pales in comparison to what has happened in New York City and I wouldn’t even try to compare, but it absolutely makes my blood boil when I see people acting like morons and playing this off as a nothingburger.
 

Josh Steinberg

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My day in no way compares to all of that that you have to endure. I tip my hat at you for somehow finding a way to get up every day and show up. I get to stay at home. I get to take care of my kids. I feel that I have it, if not exactly easy, certainly very lucky.
 

Tino

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DaveF

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I'm only aware of the situation in my area which, I believe, has had a cake walk experience compared to yours so it's really sad that adequate testing isn't available where it's likely needed most.

My main point, however, was that even it it were readily available everywhere a large percentage of individuals would probably not submit to it due to their perceived immortality and lack of concern for their fellowman.
Virginia has done well in some regards. But testing, we’re literally bottom of the nation. It’s improving, but as this weeks open testing showed, we’ve got a ways to go.

Certainly, no one *wants* to be tested with an unpleasant “probe your brain” process. And there’s 25% of the general population that tell pollsters they believe Bill Gates is putting nano-trackers in vaccines. But polls keep showing that the great majority of people are in favor of testing, masks, stay at home, caution. And NYC and Indiana and Washington and other places show that people are willing participants in random-sample studies of infections.
 

jayembee

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The only catch is that rural people don't come into close contact with one another as frequently as city folk. Even if the virus appears in a rural town, there might not be enough people getting sick to make much of a difference.

Unless they all go to church together and one of them is infectious, don't expect much.
But that's the thing. They may not be packed like sardines in a can, but they contact each other enough to spread a virus. There's churches, yes. But not just churches. It's bars and beaches, public pools and public parks. It's malls and movie theaters, flea markets and farmers markets. Backyard barbecues, and all of the other things that people like to do in the summer. Because it's now summer, and people are going to want to get out into the great outdoors and do things. And do things as a group.

We already know that cases are increasing in more rural areas in the south and midwest as states are opening up. There are those who say, "Yeah, but the numbers are going up because we're testing more." And that's true enough, but testing positive doesn't tell you if you just got it, or have had it for the past week. And regardless of when people got it, it means that the cases of infection are higher than we thought.
 
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Carlo Medina

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Admittedly I turned the TV off to play some guitar and then play some Destiny 2...but as I switched off the TV, CNN announced that after the commercial, the story they were moving to was "studies show there is a 50/50 chance that the person you're arguing about the coronavirus on the internet...is a bot!"

So, which one of you are bots? :D
 

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