Is it me or does dd have better bass-sounds than dts?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bart_R, Dec 15, 2002.

  1. Bart_R

    Bart_R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, might be a bit premature cos I haven't done a lot of comparing and stuff yet (with many different dvd's), but my first impressions are that I get much better sounding bass in dd-mode, instead of dts. Does anyone have the same experience or is my hearing seriously messed up?

    I don't know yet how the two modes compare when it comes to mid and high-sounds or what the difference in surround-experience is, just speaking of bass here.

    For example: I played the scene from my lotr-dvd (ext. ed.) where Sauron gets destroyed (well, his body), and in dd-mode you really feel that shock wave (like you should) when he disintegrates. In dts it is not that impressive, really. Not awful, but the difference is very noticeable.
    Also when thunder rumbles, or lava is boiling around barad-dur. With dd you really experience it and with dts it's so-so.

    I was really surprised, cos I thought dts was superior to dd most of the time. Whenever I bought a dvd with dts I automatically played it with dts, assuming it was the better sounding sound track. But now I'm not too sure anymore. Can somebody explain this?

    Later,
    Bart.
     
  2. Adam Horak

    Adam Horak Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The DTS track on FOTR:EE has considerably less bass than the DD track. This is a specific issue with this disc. If you try with a different DVD there is not nearly the difference you hear on FOTR.
     
  3. Nick L

    Nick L Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Have you calibrated your system with dts and dd? On most recievers there are separate controls for dd and dts. Also I have to run the bass a little higer in dts to get the same spl. Calibrating should solve this one.

    Nick L
     
  4. Bart_R

    Bart_R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, so it's just this specific disc (fotr:ee). Then I guess that explains it. So, generally, the bass is pretty much the same in dts and dd?

    I don't believe I have different controls (what exactly does this mean?) for dd and dts on my receiver (at least I haven't read anything about it in the manual). It just recognizes the kind of track and plays it, without having(the opportunity) to attribute specific settings to the different tracks. (btw, it's a pioneer vsx-d510)

    I guess I could play lotr in dts (if the rest of the soundtrack is better in dts than in dd) and then crank up the bass-level considerably on my sub. I'll see how that works.

    Btw, what makes the dts-track better than the dd one, generally speaking?

    Thanx 4 ur comments,
    Bart.
     
  5. Murali Kalapala

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think DTS generally is supposed to be better because it uses a higher bit rate.
     
  6. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bart, what DVDs are you using to make comparisons?
     
  7. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Bart_R

    Bart_R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dts higher bitrate. Ok, that sounds cool. Only what does that mean/add up to? (I'm somewhat of an audio-illiterate).

    Could u explain in practical terms what the difference is in sound? Warmer sound? More defined? Better channelled? More envelloping surround sound? Stuff like that...

    The dvd's I will be using (have not yet done that) for comparisons are these:

    t2, u571, dark city, moulin rouge, back tt future trilogy.



    Bart
     
  9. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All I can say is if there is DTS on a soundtrack I always pick it. It just sounds more detailed to me, I learned after the fact that it actually is less compressed.

    -ELmO
     
  10. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've never heard a DD soundtrack that sounded better (overall) than its DTS counterpart. I find DTS to have a more natural less compressed sound with better detail.

    WRT bass, generally the DTS bass is tighter, cleaner, and more powerful. U-571, Titan AE, and The Haunting are excellent examples of this. LOTR-FOTR EE is a notable exception. The DD LFE channel is definitely stronger than the DTS version. But after comparing both at length, I think the DTS version has the slight edge in definition and tightness. Both are VERY good on the LFE channel, though.

    Ed
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
     
  12. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All of that bitrate stuff is good and well, but it all comes down to the little guy in the sound room mixing the sound for the DVD. He controls everything. The DD and DTS tracks are 2 seperate tracks, and are mixed different. DTS is generally better, but a good sound engineer who spends a lot of time can make a DD track sound just as good.

    And the guy (or girl) mixing LOTR must of thought he was God (Or any other sacred being that you like) when he was mixing the bass, because he over-calibrated it. Hence people breaking very expensive (and some inexpensive) subwoofers when trying to play it at reference. I had it at -15db and was hitting peaks of 110db. The DTS track is probably closer to reference than the original DD track.
     
  13. Sanjiva

    Sanjiva Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i am yet to hear a DVD that sounds better in DD compared to DTS. DTS is much superior and the difference is fairly obvious - it is not one of those where only a hardcore audipphile can make out the difference.

    interesting to know that LOTR is different - but how would that be?
     
  14. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    John:
    that's what I meant. If you only had DTS on the track, then you could use the higher bitrate, not the lower one. Conversely, if you only had DD on the disc, you could use the highest possible DD bitrate.

    Bart:
    bitrate means how much data is flowing in a given amount of time. So, you start off w/ the tracks that are to be mixed. There are 6 tracks, let's say. Then you have to encode those tracks to fit on the DVD. Since there is limited space on the DVD for data you have to throw out some information (kind of like MP3 encoding). The higher the bitrate, the less data was thrown out, and hence, the truer the sound to the original. It's hard to describe the effect of throwing out that info; it's kind of source dependent. Do a google on "perceptual audio coders" and you'll find plenty of reading info.

    Personally, I feel that since DD is the standard for DVD, there really should only be 1 soundtrack on a disc, Dolby Digital. Then we could always run it at the highest bitrate for DD. Conversely, if DTS had been the standard, I would be saying the same about them.

    I sincerely hope that for the next disc medium (HD-DVD), we only have 1 video and 1 audio standard, period. None of this non-anamorphic crap, pan-and-scam, or 2 different audio formats. There should just be one video standard, let's say 1080p, and one audio standard, let's say 8 channels of uncompressed Direct Stream Digital. Wouldn't that be awesome!!??

    It would be more resolution (audio and video) than most home theaters could reproduce, but that's the beauty. As your system gets better, so does your software collection!!
     
  15. Carson E

    Carson E Agent

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bart....to your original question, yes I've heard several dual encoded disk when switching from audio-1 (DD) to audio-2 (DTS) the DTS lower bass just falls away. The upper bass, mids and highs appear to stay about equal. Switching back to DD the mid to lower bass fills back in.
    If it's not in the mixing, meaning DD is mixed a little heavier than DTS or DTS a little lighter I cant explain it.
    But to your question. Again on the dual track disks I've listen to the bass does drop out some when DTS is selected.
    To which is a more perfect replication of the original intent I dont know. I wish I did.
     
  16. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Most DTS Receivers have a special DTS LFE adjustment in the
    Bass Management section that is sperate from the general
    LFE Calibration.

    Read your manual to see if your Receiver has this special
    DTS LFE Boost/Cut and then make the needed adjustments to
    make sure it's calibrated correctly.

    As for what sounds better DD or DTS that's an age old topic
    it seems. I am one of the many who believe DTS sounds better
    than DD. To me, a DTS Sound Track is far more "Dynamic" it
    tends to have more detail in the trebbel and more punch in
    the midrange with more defined low end also. My ears tell
    me this, then there are others who swear DD sounds better
    than DTS. But I sure don't hear it... I always pick DTS
    if and when ever possible.
     
  17. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think an uncompressed format is necessary for use with HD-DVD. It would take up space that would be best used for making the picture quality its highest. Sound encoding has come a long way since Dolby Digital. A good encoder can make the sound vitually identical to the original uncompressed format. I just hope an encoder of this type is used in HD-DVD.
     
  18. Colin Chisholm

    Colin Chisholm Auditioning

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 1999
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  19. scott cerv

    scott cerv Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I prefer DTS and when I played LOTR EE last weekend I had to look at my speaker settings. All this bass everyone was talking about wasn't blowing up my system. It was so tight and defined. That said, is anyone going to correct for the lack of bass compared to the DD signal when playing this movie or any other DTS playback. It makes a big difference in DTS audio discs as well. I might boost my sub level 2-5dB on DTS tracks. I will always pick the DTS track if it is there...
    SC
     
  20. BrentPollard

    BrentPollard Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Quote:
    Personally, I feel that since DD is the standard for DVD, there really should only be 1 soundtrack on a disc, Dolby Digital. Then we could always run it at the highest bitrate for DD. Conversely, if DTS had been the standard, I would be saying the same about them.
    I disagree, just because it was chosen as the standard dosen't make it the best choice. In review after review DTS comes out on top. After all MS windows was chosen as the "Standard" over Apple OS but it is quite clear which is the better system. [​IMG]
     

Share This Page