Is it cheaper to build your own? (1 Viewer)

[Jesse Leonard]

JohanK,

You are confusing ATA vs. RPM. If two different ATA devices (ie. a ata/33 and an ata/100) are connected to the same ide port, then yes it will default to the lowest ata (in this case ata/33).

This is different than rotational speed. You can connect different rotational speed drives to the same port and they will run at the same speed. You could connect a 4k RPM and a 10K RPM to the same channel and the 10k would stay at 10k and the 4k would stay at 4k. But they would default to the slowest ata level.

Building a computer isn't for everyone. Some people like all of their parts coming preassembled from one company. But many enjoy getting exactly what components they want inside their system. Dollar for dollar you can build a better system than you can get preassembled off of a shelf.

 

[Carlo_M]

Exactly, Jesse!
Plus, the knowledge you gain from building a PC also lets you troubleshoot it. Thus avoiding those $300 "service plans" and having to take your PC back and leave it at Best Buy for weeks only to get it back with either 1) the same problem, or 2) they didn't detect a problem and it's still there, or 3) they had to wipe your data and it's lost.
not that I'm bitter or anything.

 

[Chris Bardon]

Most here seem to agree with me, but let me add that building your own is almost always better. The only downside is this-you break it, you're out the money. That being said, it's very difficult to mess things up these days, but you still have to be careful not to wire something backwards.

If you're unsure about assembling your own system, find a reputable store that will build you a custom system. I can't stress REPUTABLE enough though, since there are a lot of bad ones out there who sell bad components, have bad exchange/repair policies, and staff who have no concept of "customer service". I'm sure that most people here have horror stories about bad OEM dealers.

 

[Greg Rakaska]

To put this into terms that any HT fanatic can understand:
Compaq Presario = Bose!
There is absolutely no comparison to a well made homebulit PC. A popular buzzword in the computer industry is TCO (total cost of ownership). Consider repair/maintenance and expansion/upgradability costs. Compaq parts = $$$$, upgradeability = NOT!
I speak from much experience here, been fixing Compaqs for years, and it ain't pretty!

 

[Andrew Pratt]

I speak from much experience here, been fixing Compaqs for years, and it ain't pretty

I'm very very sorry to hear that
Actually we just bought a bunch of Dell's at work and I was quite surprised at the quality components they are using...granted the desktops aren't the easiest to upgrade with limited empty slots or drive bays but parts wise they aren't that bad. Of course I will always build my own though

 

[Samuel Des]

If two different ATA devices (ie. a ata/33 and an ata/100) are connected to the same ide port, then yes it will default to the lowest ata (in this case ata/33).

Can you control this? When installing my Western Digital drive, I was able to set my older drive at ATA/33 and my new Western Digital at ATA/66

Keeping different ATA would give it an advantage over SCSI, as I've read that SCSI will default to the slowest in the daisy chain. I really wish they would clarify the distinctions between "wide" &c.

 

[Darren Lewis]

I've got my ZIP250 drive on the same cable as my ATA-100 boot drive. Does this mean that my ATA-100 drive is being slowed to the ZIP drive speeed (which is not ATA, I think it's something called PIO)?

 

[Joel Mack]

I believe the advent of busmastering eliminated the problems on different access speed devices on the same IDE channel...

 

[Rob Gillespie]

I read that too Joel.

 

[Samuel Des]

I believe the advent of busmastering eliminated the problems on different access speed devices on the same IDE channel

Has a similar "fix" occured for SCSI? I have the Adaptec 2940 with a Jazz drive (I LOATHE that thing) and a Plextor CD-RW. Both are "Fast and Wide" (I think), but I may add a Barracuda over the holidays.

 

[Rob Varto]

I've been following this post and was wondering if anyone CAN recommend a good online source for a pre-built computer? One that is reputable and reliable? Thanks.
Anyone ever use www.unitedmicro.com or www.cyberpowersystem.com ?

 

[Carlo_M]

Rob, it would help if you put down a price range. For those hardcore gamers who don't want to build but don't mind spending a few bucks, I've heard that www.alienware.com is good, they are having holiday promotions. They'll put quality parts in your machine, but be prepared to pay for more than Compaq or HP prices.

 

[AndyVX]

I don't know about Alien Ware. I've looked at their computers and prices. While they do use quality components, their prices seem way too high. Not only that, their default prices never include a monitor. Maybe I'm just wrong though.

 

[Joel Mack]

Alienware, AFAIK, makes tweaked-out gaming rigs. Overpriced ones, too. Unless that's really what you're looking for, I wouldn't bother with them...

 

[Ken Chan]

The gamers' companies like AlienWare and Falcon Northwest use high-end name-brand components, and then charge extra for a few reasons. They tweak the systems to run faster (a BIOS/registry setting or two, removing junk from the system tray, stuff like that). They burn-in the systems. They put extra effort in making the inside of the case neat -- bundling and tying down all the wires, putting gel on the screws -- which not only reduces mishaps during shipping, but improves air flow in the case. They pre-install software, and make customized recovery discs. Now of course, you could do all this yourself, but they do, and they charge for it. Is it worth it?
As for mixing SCSI devices, mixing fast and slow devices with the same host (card) is not a problem; it does not make the fast device run at the same speed as the slow device. For speed, the only concern is the speed of the individual device and the speed of the host; whichever is slower is what you get. Now there are problems with mixing the newer LVD (low voltage) and old stuff (don't); or mixing narrow and wide (complicated); and backward compatibility.
With IDE, you cannot put old PIO stuff on the same channel as modern DMA devices. Some ATAPI (CD-ROM) devices have problems when they're on the same channel with DMA devices. Otherwise the problem of mixing faster and slower devices on the same channel making the fast one slower is pretty much a non-issue now since most BIOS/chipsets implement independent device timing. But because IDE does not multitask, the two can "get in the way" of each other; if one is significantly slower, it can be more noticeable (the faster one still runs at its full speed though). If you're attaching an ATA/66 or ATA/100 drive, be sure to use an 80-conductor cable -- same width, but with thinner wires -- otherwise, the drive will ratchet down to ATA/33.
There's a good reference on drive interfaces at PCGuide. It's also mirrored in the Reference at www.storagereview.com, where it has a nicer outline.
//Ken

 

[Roy C.]

I'm going to try to shed some more light into this topic.

First of all, OEM MOBO's, CPU's, Video Cards, etc. do have a disadvantage over "Retail" components. The most important being warranty, support and add-on features, i.e. a Retail video card will include additional games and other software like PowerDVD, etc., and a 5-year warranty (ATI) an OEM version of the same card will include only the drivers and a 90-way warranty. Retail CPU's come with the fan and a 3-year warranty, OEM ones only a 30- or 60-day, 90 if you're lucky and so on.

One thing people have forgotten to mention is that yes we've all heard about Compaq or Gateway PC's being "bad" but what we need to keep into account is that they sell hundreds of thousands a month, maybe not so many, but that's why we hear all this stuff; for us HT nutcases I'll remind you of the same case with Toshiba RPTV's, they probably sell more than Pioneer Elites and the Diamond Mitsu's together and we've all heard about their problems, but have we all had them? I've dealt with Gateway's (3,000 users) and yes I've had PC's get here without harddrives, no RAM, loose cards inside the case, etc, but when you look at the numbers it's a small percentage. I've also dealt with Dell and Compaq and my money is on Dell just because the support is better and they are upgradeable, regardless what anybody says.

One thing I'll say about the Compaq's is stay away from the Presario line, go with the DeskPro and you'll be better off. You pay a little more money but it's a good deal.

Just my thoughts.

Roy

 

[Carlo_M]

Yeah, in my post I said alienware was for hardcore gamers who didn't mind spending a few bucks. I don't know of any others (since I build my own I don't shop for this kind of thing) who use the same HQ parts they do, even without tweaking the system.

 

[JohanK]

I believe the advent of busmastering eliminated the problems on different access speed devices on the same IDE channel...

Joel, do you know what generation of mobos started using bus mastering with their chipsets? I know my Tyan mobo with the VIA Pro133 chipset doesn't have this. Anyway, I learned something today...thanx.

 

[Rob Varto]

Im looking in the $1100-$1400 price range without a monitor. Specifically an AMD XP 1800+. I would really like to build my own but I can just see the disaster waiting to happen. I've tried it before and have had mixed success. I got the thing running only to have the color RED missing from all my video. I figured it was the video card but that card worked fine in another computer. Anyways, that experience has left me a little bit gun shy.

 

[Rob Varto]

Wow, I checked out Alienware and they do have some pretty impressive machines. I was able to customize an AMD XP 1900 system with eveything that I wanted (DVD, GeForce 3 Ti500, 20GB HD) except a CD-RW for $1650. Granted, I would still need to add a CD-RW (assuming I can get one online for cheap).

Quick question: Should I get the DVD HARDWARE decoder or SOFTWARE decoder? The price difference is $68.