Is Dolby Atmos & DTS-X the last format consumers will support? (1 Viewer)

[DFurr]

Sparky, who has Atmos, says I don't need it. My setup gives a nice impression of height.

That's good advice from Sparky Robert. My surround speakers are all the way up to the ceiling height so I'm very happy with the way it sounds. I don't need Atmos.

 

[John Dirk]

That's good advice from Sparky Robert. My surround speakers are all the way up to the ceiling height so I'm very happy with the way it sounds. I don't need Atmos.

That's what I thought until I heard it. I'm not saying it's for everyone but, properly implemented, it is pretty awesome.

I just wonder where else is there left to go - you’ve got full lossless audio quality and the ability to place sounds anywhere in any room with Atmos/DTS-X. I mean, what else is there?

Vaporware, of course. IMAX Enhanced comes to mind. No extra speakers required but no one to my knowledge has given a concise answer as to what it actually does.

 

[DFurr]

That's what I thought until I heard it. I'm not saying it's for everyone but, properly implemented, it is pretty awesome.

John if I was only using my system for Blu Rays I actually might have considered doing Atmos but my existing processing equipment is really geared for 35mm film and won't allow Atmos to be added without installing a whole new system.

 

[JohnRice]

That's good advice from Sparky Robert. My surround speakers are all the way up to the ceiling height so I'm very happy with the way it sounds. I don't need Atmos.

I realize that there's little need for Atmos in your theater, since very little that you watch can take advantage of it, but that's just bad advice from someone who doesn't understand what Atmos is intended to do. It's not about "height" of side effects. It's about moving from a circle of sound, which is what surround has always been, to a dome of sound. That requires speakers overhead, and there's no other way to achieve it, even though a lot of people have the mistaken belief that height speakers and Atmos (which have to be overhead, not just elevated) are the same thing.

EDIT: I realized I typed that response wrong. I should have quoted this instead of what I quoted. I realize the way I originally wrote this makes it sound like Don was giving the bad advice, when it was Sparky who was.

Sparky, who has Atmos, says I don't need it. My setup gives a nice impression of height.

 

[John Sparks]

I realize that there's little need for Atmos in your theater, since very little that you watch can take advantage of it, but that's just bad advice from someone who doesn't understand what Atmos is intended to do. It's not about "height" of side effects. It's about moving from a circle of sound, which is what surround has always been, to a dome of sound. That requires speakers overhead, and there's no other way to achieve it, even though a lot of people have the mistaken belief that height speakers and Atmos (which have to be overhead, not just elevated) are the same thing.

EDIT: I realized I typed that response wrong. I should have quoted this instead of what I quoted. I realize the way I originally wrote this makes it sound like Don was giving the bad advice, when it was Sparky who was.

I've had the great pleasure in listening to Don's and Roberts setups and both do not need Atmos/DTX, in my opinion and they both agreed. Their setups are two of the best I have ever seen/heard.

You are totally wrong in your assessment about me giving bad advice, you don't even know me to come to that conclusion.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Nobody NEEDS Atmos, but nobody NEEDS to drive a Ferrari, either. If it's feasible for your setup and budget, and you care about having great sound, you should consider it. If your existing gear is good enough for you, or you can't justify the expense, that's fine.

A 7.1 configuration is designed to add height or side channels. Atmos is about highly localized sound objects. (That is, creating them virtually by processing the sound coming through channels.)

Getting back to the original question, I think that future sound formats will be focused on improving the processing to get better localization of sound through *fewer* channels, not more. They sell a lot of Atmos soundbars today that I suspect don't hold a candle to an actual 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 set of speakers, but maybe a few years from now, the algorithms will have improved enough to make a soundbar capable of more localized sound. THAT will sell!

 

[RobertR]

I've had the great pleasure in listening to Don's and Roberts setups and both do not need Atmos/DTX, in my opinion and they both agreed. Their setups are two of the best I have ever seen.

You are totally wrong in your assessment about me giving bad advice, you don't even know me to come to that conclusion.

Appreciate your comments, John. Another person shouldn't presume to say what we hear. He hasn't heard our systems.

 

[John Dirk]

They sell a lot of Atmos soundbars today that I suspect don't hold a candle to an actual 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 set of speakers, but maybe a few years from now, the algorithms will have improved enough to make a soundbar capable of more localized sound. THAT will sell!

They sell them but soundbars are not capable of creating a true Atmos environment and I'm pretty sure their manufacturers/marketers know this. In my opinion it's sad Dolby even allowed for this misinformation to be propagated. Clearly they wanted to broaden their potential revenue streams from licensing fees and knew the general public wouldn't know any better.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, another asshat on my ignore list...and the list keeps on growing.

Stop that right now! We can all have disagreements, but being abusive towards another poster using that type of language isn't acceptable here. Any further such forum behavior or escalation will result in disciplinary action.

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https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/help/terms

 

[John Sparks]

Well, it seems that logic is one sided. He accused me of something that I am not guilty of and then he gets to gloat that he can say whatever he wants about another person...Mainly Me!

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, it seems that logic is one sided. He accused me of something that I am not guilty of and then he gets to gloat that he can say whatever he wants about another person...Mainly Me!

You're the one being abusive with your language and escalating the disagreement. This isn't a debate, our posting guidelines are clear to understand!

 

[JohnRice]

FWIW, I find I'm upgrading some of the action movies I like to UHD, to get the Atmos soundtracks. Also some music heavy ones like Cinderella. Even though my Atmos implementation is still pretty minimal, the steering of sounds seems to be generally better. That will only improve as I (finally, someday) get a real 7.1.4 setup going, with properly installed in-ceiling speakers overhead.

I don't know if it's my imagination, but Atmos/DTS:X soundtracks seem to create a more enveloping environment, even with my current, far less than ideal 7.1.2 setup using front reflecting speakers. I wonder how much the processor plays into it, though. I have a fairly decent one, a Marantz AV7703.

 

[DaveF]

What could the industry possibly offer beyond the current audio codex's that the consumer would adopt? Do we even need anything beyond 7.1.4 or even 7.1.6 or even considering running multiple subwoofers?

I just wonder where else is there left to go - you’ve got full lossless audio quality and the ability to place sounds anywhere in any room with Atmos/DTS-X. I mean, what else is there?

I think that we're more or less at the end of “more speakers” for home audio.

But there’s still a lot to be offered to home viewer. But it’s a different direction that everyone here, trained in the decades of “more channels”, is overlooking...if I may be so bold.

The next big thing is computational audio. The Apple HomePod is a harbinger. The “codec” will be something like Atmos: an object based 3D sound field. But it won’t be pre-processed to discrete channels. It will be a generalized positional data plus the audio. It will be fed to a small number of smart speakers that self calibrate within the room, and create the 3D audio experience in real time from the positional audio stream calculated against their self calibration.

It will be Audyssey plus Atmos plus Apple HomePod, where every speaker has the computational power of last year’s smartphones. It won’t create the perfect 3D audio that a true ensemble of 11 to 15 speakers can. But for most people it will be cheaper and better than anything they’ve ever had previously.

 

[JohnRice]

But it won’t be pre-processed to discrete channels.

That's what Atmos is, and DTS:X. It doesn't have a pre-defined number of channels, but is "object oriented" to place sounds at a specific location within the room. The processor and number & location of speakers determines how precisely it can reproduce sounds where they are supposed to be.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

I don't think I will understand so-called "cinephiles" and their antithetical propensity to think every latest thing is the last thing they will ever need. "Good enough" is the enemy of all progress.

 

[DaveF]

That's what Atmos is, and DTS:X. It doesn't have a pre-defined number of channels, but is "object oriented" to place sounds at a specific location within the room. The processor and number & location of speakers determines how precisely it can reproduce sounds where they are supposed to be.

To my understanding, they are generalized 3D audio at the studio design level. But for consumer audio, the soundtrack is pre-computed and released as discrete channels. My Marantz 7702 is not doing a computational audio to convert a pure 3D data stream to my specific channels. It’s playing 7.1.4 channels modified by Audyssey generates phase delays and frequency response functions.

Will try to do some searching to see if I’ve got this right or wrong.

 

[JohnRice]

To my understanding, they are generalized 3D audio at the studio design level. But for consumer audio, the soundtrack is pre-computed and released as discrete channels. My Marantz 7702 is not doing a computational audio to convert a pure 3D data stream to my specific channels. It’s playing 7.1.4 channels modified by Audyssey generates phase delays and frequency response functions.

Will try to do some searching to see if I’ve got this right or wrong.

Do you have a 7702 or a 7702a? I don't believe the 7702 does Atmos, so when you play an Atmos soundtrack on a 7702, you're just getting (usually) regular Dolby HD 7.1.

 

[JohnRice]

Did consumers, especially the general public, actually ever embrace either format? I fear it was just embraced by a very select few enthusiasts.

About 99% of the general public has no idea that Atmos and DTS:X even exist, or what they are.

 

[Lord Dalek]

I think "home theater" is being put to pasture after every passing year. We now live in a world of "good enough" and sound bars. I see plenty of folks shopping for these bars more than I have in years past.

On the other hand this technology is tricking down to the soundbar crowd as well. Its just too damn expensive and lacking in market saturation to penetrate the "Walmart Market" which the Home Theater Enthusiasts (such as this forum SO MANY TIMES) keep forgetting is the real consumer base.

 

[JohnRice]

On the other hand this technology is tricking down to the soundbar crowd as well. Its just too damn expensive and lacking in market saturation to penetrate the "Walmart Market" which the Home Theater Enthusiasts (such as this forum SO MANY TIMES) keep forgetting is the real consumer base.

yeah, but Atmos in a soundbar is a total joke. Marketing BS. Just like the 5 Series TCL TV I got for the living room. It "does" HDR, as in, it can accept and process an HDR signal, but it's maximum light output and dynamic range prevent it from truly making use of it. So, the marketing says "This has Dolby Vision" and people think it's the same as a Quantum or OLED TV, and they never have a clue. That TV is fine for me. I wanted a cheap TV. I knew that it wasn't really capable of real HDR, but most people will be suckered. "Which soundbar should I buy?" "This one costs twice as much, but has Atmos and that one doesn't." "Ooh! I'll take the one with Atmos."