Is burn-on-demand the future? (1 Viewer)

[DeWilson]

I agree with you on this point,David. I'm not 100% convinced they've solved all these problems.

The Key problem is most of the burn-on-demand out there is it's done cheeply as possible on poorly made media. You can have the best duplicators out there and compatible players,but if the media is shoddy,then there's still isues.

 

[David Lambert]

I appreciate so much that everyone up to this point pretty much understands and tends to agree with what I wrote, so thank you for being on the same page with me regarding that. It's a complicated situation!

I'd just like to comment on something Tory wrote:


Tory, I do see what you're saying regarding a large number of releases being difficult to find in stores. If you don't have a Best Buy near you (and sometimes even if you do), then you're not going to find the latest releases of the classic Doctor Who series at Circuit City, or at Wal-Mart or Target. Heck, you'll be lucky to find one or two copies of them, at full list price, at Borders or a record-type store such as FYE. If you want them, you have to go online to get them. And that's Doctor Who! The same goes for other stuff, too. How many places have you spotted Hell's Kitchen on the shelf? Tiny Toons? Banacek? The Wire? Around where I live, these pretty darn popular shows are scarce on store shelves (I've had friends/family complain to me about each, and looking around I see what they meant).

On the other hand, if burn-on-demand takes off, people interested in those titles will still be forced to buy them online, only to get a product of lesser all-around quality. Plus, if burn-on-demand is successful, why in the world wouldn't studios save money and use it for the bigger shows that CAN be found in stores? Legendary shows like I Dream of Jeannie, or Dallas, or Looney Tunes, or The Cosby Show, or Charmed, or 90210, or Twilight Zone, or I Love Lucy, or Peanuts? Enormously popular current shows like Battlestar Galactica, or The Simpsons, or Lost, or Pushing Daisies, or Heroes, or Grey's Anatomy, or 30 Rock, or CSI: Miami, or 24, or My Name is Earl, or Family Guy? Cult (and I use the term loosely here) shows like Firefly, or Sports Night (got a preview of the new set yesterday; it ROCKS!), or He-Man, or Get Smart, or Spaced, or Voltron, or Dark Shadows?

There are still an ENORMOUS number of TV-DVDs that can be found in just about any retail store. They dedicate huge chunks of floor space to it, and there's still not enough room (which is the problem with why they have to draw a line somewhere any unfortunately say "no" to stocking some of them).

Hey, can you imagine what the reaction of fans of the Buffy-verse would be if they couldn't walk into stores and find box sets of that show sitting on the shelve? Stargate fans? South Park? Me and my fellow Trekkies?

No, I'm not really in favor of this idea as being "the future". A niche product somewhere for the hardest-to-find items, maybe...but if they come in sleeves/envelopes, or in generic packaging that's no better than a generic case like the "Previously Viewed" Blockbuster items where they lost the original package for the disc, then I doubt I could display the thing with my collection of TV-DVDs. And I'd be worried that the data wouldn't be right on them, or that the low-quality discs DeWilson mentions might not last a lifetime.

And also, what's the resale value of these things if you want to eBay it? What about the gift-giving value...what would your father-in-law think of getting his favorite show on this for Christmas? And how would all of this affect Blu-ray? Hell, wouldn't it cripple the whole idea of packaged media? There really wouldn't be any "good" packaging, to speak of!

'Nuff said, at least for now.

 

[WhitneyG]

Whether you believe them or not, here is the description of the quality of the burn-on-demand products being sold on Amazon:

CreateSpace - On-Demand Self Publishing, DVD on Demand, CD on Demand, Books on Demand, DVD Duplication and DVD Replication
For all the talk of poor-quality for burn-on-demand products, this description doesn't exactly scream poor quality to me. If fact, it directly addresses some of the main concerns I've seen:

1. They don't come in sleeves or generic boxes. They come in keep-cases that have full color covers.

2. They verify all recorded content. Meaning, you won't get a non-functional disc or a disc with missing data.

3. They use brand name DVD-Rs. It's true that some "brand names" are cheaper than other (in quality and/or price). However, the fact that they verify content certainly implies to me that it's not even an issue if they go cheap. The purpose of getting brand name is, primarily, to get a lower failure rate. If they are verifying the data, then they lose money if a burning fails, not me.

4. They even cellophane wrap them and give them UPCs. Gift giving and eBay selling don't seem to be out of the question.

Plus, the guide DeWilson noted goes over why recordable media isn't going to stop functioning any quicker than pressed media.

Would I rather see things released to retail stores and on press media? Of course I would. The packaging is usually better, there's competitive pricing, and the higher likelihood of good sales means more can go into making special features and restoration. Not to mention that some players are still not compatible with recordable media (VideoHelp.com's database indicates 93% of players are compatible with DVD-R). Plus, this is based on the quality of only one burn-on-demand company; it's likely there are others that don't take as much care. Like some have said, though, some titles simply won't make it to retail stores. For those titles, burn-on-demand seems like a reasonable option.

 

[Robert13]

I completely agree with you. And I also must say I don't think it makes a huge effect on store sales. This burn-on-demand concept would limit certain titles just like the recently-announced Nickelodean titles. I would save this concept for those rare shows that may never see the light of day on dvd otherwise. It makes it more profitable for the studios. The more mainstream titles can be saved for commercial releases whenever the studio decides to release them. I think it's a simple solution to everyone's hesitations about this concept and its effect on the retail marketplace.

 

[Ethan Riley]

David, I just think you're letting your imagination get away from you. I propose that we take this issue up as a "wait and see" issue. I for one, volunteer to guinea pig and test these sets as they are released. I'm gonna order South of Nowhere and test it--see if the disc or packaging quality isn't very good...then I'll report back in this thread.

My gut feeling is that this is gonna take off. The listings in Amazon for these titles don't come across as amateurish or unprofessional. There are very nice-looking box covers for some of these releases. It doesn't sound like they're fooling around; they're not trying to put out cheap product to steal everyone's money. It sounds like they're addressing the collector's market for some of these dvds, and we need to give them the benefit of the doubt. Well, some of the dvds will be available in a few days. I've said all I have to say, until I actually watch one of these dvds.

 

[John Stuart]

Physical media should only be used as a way of backup, not something that I would like to deal with every day.

I might as well use my HTPC to play my entire collection. Cases and covers are overrated these days, we see more people complaining about them rather than the contents inside.

Another benefit of such technology: many suppliers can't sell titles that are not available anymore (because they are out of print/stock).

No one wants to make less profit, from movie companies to ISPs, that's why I am not expecting any major improvement on that area.

 

[David Lambert]

See, that's the ADVANTAGE of physical media over downloads. Let's take "The Devil's Advocate", starring Al Pacino, for example. If that was a film you had bought via download, then you would be stuck with whatever version is available to buy via download today. Which would be the changed version that removes scenes near the end where sculpted artwork became animated to emphasize what was going on with Pacino's character. In the "fixed" version there are some scenes where that is still visible over Pacino's shoulders, but have been blurred/unfocused so you can't make it out.

Why? Because the artwork used in the film was judged in a court to be a violation of the copyright held by a mega-church in Washington D.C. (called the National Church, IIRC). They own a sculpture, which they had commissioned and display in the church, which they proved in court was too substantially like the one in the film. So the studio had to do their best to remove the depiction of the rip-off sculpture, per the terms of the trial result. This was AFTER a DVD had been released, so new DVDs had to be issued with the changes. Old DVDs that were unsold up until then were recalled and destroyed, I think.

This story is told better elsewhere; consider this a "high-level" look at it.

But the bottom line is this: while there is no doubt in my mind that the court made the right decision, and while I support the position of the church to protect their copyright, there is also no doubt in my mind that the film was a better film WITH those scenes, than without.

With packaged media, people who wanted to were able to go to eBay and find a used copy of the original version of The Devils Advocate and own it, for all time, period. With downloads, you have no choice but to take what they give you. Whether it's edited for good reasons, like in this case, or for bad reasons like political correctness, you only get what they choose to give you. If they choose to give it to you at all; things that WERE available for download/purchase can STILL be "taken out of print" by removing it from the server. I wonder how many items aren't on iTunes any more that used to be?

And with downloads, you can't borrow it from your neighbor, or import a British or Japanese copy, or get it on the cheap from a used store. It's all controlled by the studio.

Which means that the people who really will profit once more are the people who bootleg, and the people who sell software that helps you get around DRM controls. Yippee-doodle.

 

[Aryn Leroux]

did i miss something ? burn-on-demand = physical media and not downloads. That is why it is a very interesting aspect of the industry. A reason I have not used the Amazon inbox to get Hill Street Blues season 3 is the no media and quality issues. But this burn-on-demand offers physical media, packaging etc.. etc.. and hopefully good quality, which remains to be seen just yet granted. This should not be looked down upon, it should be embraced. It can be a way to distribute shows the studios would not otherwise see fit to release.

 

[Robert13]

Yes, thank you. My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there are a lot of one season wonders they could use for this new concept. Hopefully, more will be announced soon.

 

[LCD22]

I think we might still see a mainstream release for "Student Bodies". As I rediscovered watching "Victor Moves In" recently and then went on IMDb, "Stargate: SG-1" and "Stargate: Atlantis'" Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie also worked on this series. Others that were also involved notably are: Mark Taylor who is currently on CTV/CBS' hit series "Flashpoint" (which is likely to get a second season), Miklos Perlus (who played "Peter Craig" in the earlier seasons of "Road to Avonlea"), Ross Hull ("Are You Afraid of the Dark?", which was highly-requested and is a big seller on DVD; remember he wasn't the only one from "Student Bodies" who put in appearance(s) on this popular series), Jennifer Finnigan (who has been in a bunch of things since "Student Bodies"), and Jamie Elman (who certainly has a fan following). And out of all of the shows you listed, this one has the most demand. Also, "Student Bodies" is getting renewed interest as it has been airing on Showcase.

I've already contacted two Canadian companies, and last night I asked Mr. Mallozzi on his weblog about a possible future release. If I hear anything, I'll pass it along.

EDIT: I just heard back from one of them. They have passed it along to their "acquisitions person for consideration."

 

[LCD22]

Sorry, double post.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

The only plus to this burn-on-demand concept that I see is would be the day that I can finally purchase vintage Fox TV broadcasts of the Hour Of Stars program.

 

[Wezzo]

Hey Arnold! S1 is already available. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EO5JJS

 

[Paul Miller]

2002 was six years ago now and technology does improve over time. It might be at least be worth revisiting.

 

[Corey3rd]

You couldn't get the rest of Huckleberry Hounds via burn on demand because you still have the music issue

 

[HenryDuBrow]

I love the idea, I want a physical product in my hand not a file on my computer. This is what studios/networks should be doing, offer their TV titles/episodes with individual sale and the opportunity for fans to buy their own put-together collections.

 

[John Stuart]

Let's see. Buying things from the internet might save you, at the same time, a lot of money. First, you are not going to pay shipping costs, high taxes (specially if the product you are interested is not available where you live, and the whole bunch of things like media/package/royalties/store revenues that can rise all prices.

You might also choose what kind of contents you are going to buy - only the movie (no extras?), how many audio tracks, subtitles, etc. And why not - the whole "package" separately? How many covers/cases are considered bad and how much space you are going to need to store all of them? I have more than 500 discs and I am actually removing my rack. Physical media will never cease to exist, unless you don't care about making backups and preserving your copies (fair use).

We can't decide what we want today. Sometimes they just offer you the entire boxset (including the whole season, or movie collection), and you are forced to buy the whole thing (even if you only need one disc). You are stuck with what they are offering. And if you are going to quote DRM, I might as well say the region codes are equally stupid, and they are still there.

Have you looked the DVDCompare website? How many different (and bad) releases were made on different countries by different companies? Even if there's no reason for that. Right, we can buy these bootlegs from eBay or hope in a very distant future all the local companies will release them. That's not going to happen. eBay copies will not speak your language, therefore you will need to edit them and insert subtitles (or rip into your hard-drive). Suuuure, it's a very easy process...

If you are using the internet, just purchase that version, with everything you need and being offered for a better price). After you received the files, just burn the disk and voila!

Need I remind you that most bootlegs are also overpriced? Since the companies are making a very limited number of copies, we are being extorted by the so-called "collectors".

Being realistic, if tomorrow everyone starts selling movies over the internet, we might not have any major improvement over the current model, but at least we will have that option. While technology progresses at the speed of light it's implementation is filtered through the speed of bureaucracy.

 

[AnthonyC]

Someone posted an excellent review + some nice screencaps, the back cover, and the discs for the Hey Arnold! season 1 release...and I must say, I'm very impressed. Not only does the packaging appear to be the standards you'd expect from a retail release, but Amazon is underselling this by claiming a 116-min. runtime, when in fact that's the approximate runtime for each disc, not the entire set. Which makes much more sense and was the big question mark for me regarding these releases.

I really look forward to seeing what else comes out in this manner; while bare bones DVD-Rs are hardly my first choice, I'm really not seeing much of a problem with it considering it meets Amazon.com's usual high standards.

 

[Aryn Leroux]

very nice... thanks for the link to the images. So what exactly is wrong with a set like that ? My hope is Gord/Dave will get a hold of a set themselves and inspect the quality. Then maybe re-consider covering these releases with news and whatnot.

 

[Travis87]

Doug & Hey Arnold! were shows on Nick I really used to like when I was a kid. I'll probably pick one of these up pretty soon to try em out and see how the audio/video quality is and stuff. but the packaging looks great from the pics that were put up on the one Hey Arnold listing. The lack of extras and stuff doesnt bother me much, but there are at least a couple things I know could be included for Hey Arnold....that character was around for years before the show got off the ground. I hope they keep this up with some of the other classic Nick shows like Salute Your Shorts or All That!