iPhone 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max owners thread

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
You misunderstand how glass works and Apple's priorities. Stronger glass scratches easier and is more shatter resistant. It's physics. None of my phones before the 11pro max scratched either, but it did on day 1.
I’ve got a pretty good idea how glass works. :laugh:

I‘m saying, if Apple against all rationality made a design compromise that allows their screens to be severely scratched in a few days of normal use, they made a profound design error that should never have gotten past internal development two years ago and is not an iPhone anyone should buy.

Maybe I misunderstand these ”scratches”. I’ve taken it as severe, use-impairing scratches like from grinding keys or another iPhone’s metal frame against the screen.

If this is just the really fine, cosmetic scratches that are only visible in bright light — often a more grazing incidence — then.... That’s been a thing for years. Minor cosmetics. Only an issue in my experience for those few who want their device to impossibly look like it’s freshly bought three years later.
 
Last edited:

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,290
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
These scratches never happened before the 11 on any of my phones and it wasn’t widely reported either...

 

Nelson Au

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 1999
Messages
15,858
Those scratches look like rocks and keys in the pockets or it was slid on a surface face down. :oops:
 

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
These scratches never happened before the 11 on any of my phones and it wasn’t widely reported either...

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I have a lot of skepticism about this seemingly very infrequent occurrence being an Apple-glass problem versus user error. Putting glass devices in pockets with keychains and coins is not prudent. Metal can scratch glass. I'm very skeptical of users claiming their iphone glass was deeply gouged from "normal" use. That simply doesn't happen from normal use. That's a hard object with significant force moved across the glass surface.

But maybe Apple has developed a very ductile glass that is readily scratched by pocket lint. If so, no one should buy an iPhone 12. Because that would be a terrible product. And the only way to express this is a bad tradeoff for the rare drop is to vote with dollars.
 

Clinton McClure

Rocket Science Department
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 1999
Messages
5,954
Location
Central Arkansas
Real Name
Clint
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I have a lot of skepticism about this seemingly very infrequent occurrence being an Apple-glass problem versus user error. Putting glass devices in pockets with keychains and coins is not prudent. Metal can scratch glass. I'm very skeptical of users claiming their iphone glass was deeply gouged from "normal" use. That simply doesn't happen from normal use. That's a hard object with significant force moved across the glass surface.

But maybe Apple has developed a very ductile glass that is readily scratched by pocket lint. If so, no one should buy an iPhone 12. Because that would be a terrible product. And the only way to express this is a bad tradeoff for the rare drop is to vote with dollars.
I have found that 99% of user complaints for almost everything are because of user error.
 

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
I have found that 99% of user complaints for almost everything are because of user error.
I don't want to just say it's user error. With a billion products out there, a weird six-sigma quirk can manifest and affect enough people to be heard on the internet.

I had a bunch of weird problems with my AirPods Pro. I've not seen these issues mentioned in any mainstream review. And yet they affected me and were definitely not user error on my part. I think a weird quirk of complex electronics.

Glass scratching...I lean toward thinking people are putting their phones in damaging situations without realizing it. It happened to me once a few years back with an iPhone 5. I've never heard of anyone having a scratched camera lens. You know, back when Apple made glass that doesn't scratch. But I did it. In hindsight I see how it happened. I can see people doing that. Moreso was screens are bigger, there's more opportuntiy to get scratched.

And if Apple is trading away hardness to get less brittleness, that envelope for what was acceptable risk of scratching might be shrinking, but people don't know it?
 

Clinton McClure

Rocket Science Department
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 1999
Messages
5,954
Location
Central Arkansas
Real Name
Clint
I had a bunch of weird problems with my AirPods Pro. I've not seen these issues mentioned in any mainstream review. And yet they affected me and were definitely not user error on my part. I think a weird quirk of complex electronics.
You fell into the 1% that wasn’t user error. I’ve been there too, as recently as some CarPlay bugs that plagued my iPhone in iOS 14, yet didn’t make a big enough splash to be reported about online. They were quietly fixed in iOS 14.1 and I don’t see them anymore.
 

Clinton McClure

Rocket Science Department
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 1999
Messages
5,954
Location
Central Arkansas
Real Name
Clint
I have spent the morning setting up my iPhone 12 and am using it to post to HTF right now. I don’t use a case anymore and keep my phone in my front left trouser pocket by itself so we’ll see if pocket lint can scratch the glass but I really don’t think it will. I’ll use the phone throughout the day and will be posting my thoughts this evening or in the morning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveF

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,290
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Those scratches look like rocks and keys in the pockets or it was slid on a surface face down. :oops:
Nothing EVER goes in that pocket besides my phone. And the scratches all start at the edge. Same as the other complaints. You guys can keep calling me an unreliable narrator all you want, I know what happened. As do those other users.

That simply doesn't happen from normal use. That's a hard object with significant force moved across the glass surface.
Again, no it isn't but you are welcome to believe I'm a moron or liar. Many here at HTF do. :blink:

I have found that 99% of user complaints for almost everything are because of user error.
Yeah yeah, PEBCAK. I'm not a noobie tho and neither are those other reports. Choose to believe what you will.
 

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
Nothing EVER goes in that pocket besides my phone. And the scratches all start at the edge. Same as the other complaints. You guys can keep calling me an unreliable narrator all you want, I know what happened. As do those other users.
Which is why I said this:
But maybe Apple has developed a very ductile glass that is readily scratched by pocket lint. If so, no one should buy an iPhone 12. Because that would be a terrible product. And the only way to express this is a bad tradeoff for the rare drop is to vote with dollars.
If current iPhones scratch badly and easily from touching clothing, there's something really wrong with them. I'm not sure why people would buy or why enthusiasts would recommend Apple products in 2020 to friends/family if they're this garbage?

This seems like an Apple keyboard thing: if it's real, people need to start shouting about it, and stop buying the products until it's fixed. This should be a reputational damage problem.

If I need to treat an $1100 iPhone Pro Max with velvet gloves and never take it out of the house...maybe I need to not buy one and give my 8+ a fourth year.
 
Last edited:

DavidJ

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Messages
4,110
Real Name
David
The MobileReviewsEh video makes it certain that I'll be picking up Apple's 20-watt charger sooner rather than later. The Mag Safe charger is neat, but I don't really see a need for it either. I'll stick to wired charging. I'm. underwhelmed by Mag Safe. I guess we'll have to see where the tech ends up going.

As far as scratching, the same channel has a video where he tests the glass of the 12 and compares it with the 11 using various items and Mohs picks.

I Broke An iPhone 12 To See How Tough the Ceramic Shield Is!
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: DaveF

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
29,290
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
So this week Verizon added Hulu and ESPN+ to a few of their "Unlimited" packages. I was currently paying $85 a month for my service and went to the $100 plan with $10 off a month for direct pay. So $5 difference and I get Hulu, ESPN, double the data caps and half off on additional lines. So, if they do add an LTE / 5G Macbook this winter I'll be moving to that day one and no more tethering. It's expensive but for my use, non covid times at least, it is worth it.
 

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
So this week Verizon added Hulu and ESPN+ to a few of their "Unlimited" packages. I was currently paying $85 a month for my service and went to the $100 plan with $10 off a month for direct pay. So $5 difference and I get Hulu, ESPN, double the data caps and half off on additional lines. So, if they do add an LTE / 5G Macbook this winter I'll be moving to that day one and no more tethering. It's expensive but for my use, non covid times at least, it is worth it.
Does the half off make the Apple Watch line $5 from normal $10/mo?

I don’t think Unlimited makes sense for me yet, but I’ve started becoming of its pricing now, as it’s moving in that direction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sam Posten

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
57,085
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
So this week Verizon added Hulu and ESPN+ to a few of their "Unlimited" packages. I was currently paying $85 a month for my service and went to the $100 plan with $10 off a month for direct pay. So $5 difference and I get Hulu, ESPN, double the data caps and half off on additional lines. So, if they do add an LTE / 5G Macbook this winter I'll be moving to that day one and no more tethering. It's expensive but for my use, non covid times at least, it is worth it.
I was on Verizon's most expensive package which included Apple Music.

I saw that plan with Hulu, Disney, and ESPN+ for $5 less

It didn't quite make sense that I could get all that for $5 less per month than what I was paying.

I think the difference between the two packages is the amount of hotspot data you get.

In any event, I downgraded to the lesser-priced package and picked up those channels. Still get Apple Music. It's a helluva deal.

I still get Ultrawide 5G with the plan so it looks pretty good
 

DaveF

Moderator
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
24,044
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
Didn’t you guys sign up for the $150, 3-year D+ plan last year? What’s the benefit of freeD+ if you’ve already got two more years locked in for super cheap?
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
345,480
Messages
4,742,983
Members
141,462
Latest member
Niloc