Inwall rear speakers.. in the ceiling?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Brad-F, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Brad-F

    Brad-F Stunt Coordinator

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    My new house was finished about 8 months ago. During the build I had some wiring installed for the speakers for my home theater.

    The room is about 7 x 3.5 meters big. We'll be sitting about half way along the length of the room, therefore about 3.5 meters from the screen.

    The installer, despite my clear instructions has exposed the cables for the rear left/right and center, in the ceiling, about 1' in from the back wall.

    When I quizzed him about this he told me that it makes no difference. At the time, moving in the the new house, and all the stuff that goes along with that, I did not have the energy or the know-how to argue with him. So thats where the cable currently stick out ready for installation of the speakers. (coming soon after the wedding in Oct)

    If i mount the inwall speakers here, in the ceiling, they will be about 3 meters behind where we will be sitting, and facing down.

    Before I install any speakers, should I worry about the position of the rear speakers?

    How much difference will it make? Should I make the effort to reposition the cables? (And patch the holes in the roof the installer made when he pulled the cables through)

    Thanks
     
  2. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Inwalls in the ceiling for the rears are a great idea IMO.
     
  3. Brad-F

    Brad-F Stunt Coordinator

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    So perhaps there is some method to their madness. Can you explain why they the rear speakers would be better in the roof, 3 meters behind me. If your right, it saves me the task of patching up the gyprock.
     
  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I can't really explain it, you'll have to install them and hear it.
     
  5. Brad-F

    Brad-F Stunt Coordinator

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    mmm... That could be tough. Ideally I would like to install them in the roof, and then in the wall, and hear the difference.

    But I not really that keen to put such big holes in the wall or roof, if they are not going to be used.

    Thanks for your input.

    Has anyone else had some experience with this? Roof or wall?
     
  6. John Alvarez

    John Alvarez Screenwriter

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    Unless they can be angled toward the listening area it doesn't make sense. The sound will be firing staright done to the floor. That's like saying you could put your fronts face down?
     
  7. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    Depends on the speakers. In-wall is preferable...your installer was completely BS-ing you that it doesn't matter. More likely that he F'd up and is trying to cover. That being said, I have mine in-ceiling all the way around. I have no rear wall where my equipment is because it opens up to the kitchen. Dangling some cabinets from the ceiling was completely against the "hide the technology" edict from my wife, so in-ceilings it was.

    If you're handy with drywall and you're up for it, or if you feel like badgering your installer to correct his error, then go ahead and re-route. But if you'd rather not get into it, then look at trading the in-walls for some that are designed for in-ceiling. Most have some directional adjustment, at least for the tweeter. It isn't the same as it being truly directional, but it does compensate somewhat. My Energy Veritas Custom 2.0CM's are designed with a center pod with dual mids and the tweeter together as a unit. The entire pod rotates to direct the sound and it does a great job. When the Balrog cracks his whip in FOTR I can clearly hear the impact directly behind me. I'm using dual rear centers...your layout sounds like you have only one. Lots of debate about that, but that's for another thread.

    If you decide to take that route, I'd move them away from the wall a bit...maybe one meter (if it's doable without too much difficulty).
     
  8. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    I agree. In-ceilings speakers, be they designed for that or adapted in-walls, can be effectively utilized, but not when they’re nine feet behind the seating area. Since they fire down at the floor, they have to be fairly close to the seating – I’d say no more than about two feet behind it for an 8-ft. ceiling. You can go further back with higher ceilings.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  9. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I've got a friend with a 7.1 setup with in-ceiling surrounds because his back wall is about 15' behind him. It works surprisingly well, but the sides are about 2' to either side of the couch and the rears are about 3' behind. It doesn't give the greatest directionality, but it does give a good, diffused surround effect. That far behind you would not give you much separation at all, and might not sound right. I'd reposition them nearer to the listening position.

    Another thought is to use speakers that allow you to control the direction of the speaker's image, and direct them toward the listening area.
     
  10. Brad-F

    Brad-F Stunt Coordinator

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    I forgot to point out that the HT is on the ground floor of a two storey house. Moving these cables will be no trivial task. (its not like I can climb up into the roof and move them).

    From the small holes in the ceiling where the cables come out now I cannot see if this move is even possible. If there is a wooden beam in the way, then there is little hope, without major reconstruction. (Major for this computer programmer anyway) [​IMG]

    Maybe I could just cut a groove in the gyprock for the cable under any such beam, and then plaster it up and paint it once the cable is in place.

    From what I have read in this thread, I am going to try to move them to the back wall. Thanks all.
     
  11. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Clarifrication.....

    Personally I prefer a less directional more diffuse rear soundfield, much like you often get in a real commercial movie theater. That's why I really like the idea of the surrounds 3 meters back in the ceiling. I find overly localized surround sound calls too much attention to itself and I find myself listening to the sound mix not enjoying the movie. (this is part of the reason I got rid of my 7.1 system and went back to 5.1.)

    If I were in your shoes I'd find some in-ceiling speakers that can be somewhat directional and use them where they are.

    Just my opinion of course.
     

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