Internet Browsers: What are YOU using? (And why?)

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
I tried Vivaldi - hated it. Mostly because of the UI - all of them now seem to think the URL bar belongs *below* the tab bar. I very much prefer it to be *above* the tabs. I'm smart enough to know the tab I'm on is what's in the URL bar (something the "designers" seem to think escapes people - and the reasoning I've read for "tabs on top." I have some custom ccs applied to FF so it looks like it did before the Mozilla designers mucked about with the UI making it look like everyone else. I've not found a way to do that with any of the chromium builds. There were a few other annoying things but I just don't recall what they were - it's been too long. I just remember the horrid UI, used it about 20 minutes, couldn't find fixes for its annoying UI "features," and uninstalled it.
This seems to be one of your big hang ups. :)

In practice, there isn't much anybody can do about it other than writing your own custom addons + css scripts and/or modifying the mozilla or chromium source code and recompiling a custom binary to address the issue. Or if one is highly motivated, writing a new browser completely from scratch and not using any legacy codebases (like mozilla or chromium).

My browser of choice for a long time was stuff like lynx, largely because I didn't want to see all the graphics and other media noise on pages back in the early 2000s. Unfortunately as time went on, there was so much scripting and other crap on most web pages that text-only browsers like lynx were much more troublesome to use, than to just "turn to the dark side" by using something generic which was mozilla or chromium based (or other ones now-discontinued such as the Presto engine).
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
Back in the day, I use to compile my own custom mozilla binaries on linux.

As time went on, it became too tedious to do this all the time.
 

BobO'Link

Lead Actor
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
6,525
Reaction score
7,948
Points
9,110
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
This seems to be one of your big hang ups. :)
More of a pet peeve. It's a fairly simple thing to implement. I've read developer blogs about it where they essentially say "We don't like that option so we're removing it. You should work the way we want because we know what's best." Arrogance to the max and total BS.

There are very few "designers" who know what makes for a "good" GUI. Most never consider that what they like may not be "best" for everyone. I waste hours every day due to poor GUI design - browser and otherwise. Web based GUIs seem to be the worst. Most require 2-5 times the "clicking" and work to use than necessary. Everything from non-intuitive layouts to labels that don't accurately describe the underlying function to different controls for an area being spread out into multiple areas making it take longer to accomplish a simple task.

When it comes right down to it I miss the days when you could work on a project and never have to pick up a mouse. Everything could be done with the keyboard. There are still products that offer such an option but they are few and far between because today's "designers" don't know how to program for a keyboard and can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to use a mouse. We have a database product that gets significant use every day. It's now a web based, full GUI, product. Hardly a week goes by that I don't hear a complaint from one of the users about how much faster and easier the old keyboard based system was.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
When it comes right down to it I miss the days when you could work on a project and never have to pick up a mouse. Everything could be done with the keyboard. There are still products that offer such an option but they are few and far between because today's "designers" don't know how to program for a keyboard and can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to use a mouse. We have a database product that gets significant use every day. It's now a web based, full GUI, product. Hardly a week goes by that I don't hear a complaint from one of the users about how much faster and easier the old keyboard based system was.
This must be a generational change.

Back in the day I was using the vi editor all the time. Then it was emacs.

Gradually over the years, I ended up moving on eventually to a gui version of emacs. Apparently on current versions of microsoft windows 10 (or 8), the non-gui versions of emacs and vi don't seem to work properly. (I'm probably missing a dll library or two, which I haven't been able to figure out by inspection).
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
Most of my computer code is still run at a command line with the output dumped to stdout/stderr or piped into a txt file.

I still haven't figured out how to do proper M$ windows (or X windows) programming. This is my current handicap in doing any real computer coding on a modern system. (Most of my code is number crunching type stuff).
 

theJman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
138
Reaction score
21
Points
10
Location
New Joisey
Real Name
Jim
I still haven't figured out how to do proper M$ windows (or X windows) programming. This is my current handicap in doing any real computer coding on a modern system. (Most of my code is number crunching type stuff).
OOP in a multi-tasking OS is a totally different animal than traditional structured coding. I programmed many things over a 20 year period of time - mostly for my own enjoyment, I'm not a programmer by trade - but when OOP came out I had a hard time grasping the overall concept. The complexities made it almost mandatory to buy 3rd party libraries and RAD (rapid application development) kits to make progress. For the most part you lose direct access to the hardware, something I miss dearly, so I slowly lost interest and haven't coded anything in a long time..
 

Scott Merryfield

Executive Producer
Joined
Dec 16, 1998
Messages
15,709
Reaction score
3,373
Points
9,110
Location
Michigan
When it comes right down to it I miss the days when you could work on a project and never have to pick up a mouse. Everything could be done with the keyboard. There are still products that offer such an option but they are few and far between because today's "designers" don't know how to program for a keyboard and can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to use a mouse. We have a database product that gets significant use every day. It's now a web based, full GUI, product. Hardly a week goes by that I don't hear a complaint from one of the users about how much faster and easier the old keyboard based system was.
If we are waxing nostalgia, I started in the field using a key punch and decks of punch cards... but I don't miss those days. :blink:
 

Mike Frezon

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
53,089
Reaction score
15,256
Points
9,110
Age
61
Location
Rensselaer, NY
Crap.

My FF must've updated. I'm on 71.0.

And, of course, the reason I'm saying this (and even noticed) is because my tabs are now back above the URL bar...

:(
 

questrider

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
711
Reaction score
654
Points
610
Real Name
Brian
Crap.

My FF must've updated. I'm on 71.0.

And, of course, the reason I'm saying this (and even noticed) is because my tabs are now back above the URL bar...

:(
Mike, this happened to me last night too and I discovered someone had already figured out the solution.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/comments/e5md05/firefox_71_broke_my_tabs_on_the_bottom_fix/

You just have to add display: block !important; to the #TabsToolbar section of the old css code to get the tabs on bottom in your "userChrome.css" file.

Still makes me shake my head as to why Mozilla just doesn't simply add this as a preference that can be toggled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobO'Link

Mike Frezon

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
53,089
Reaction score
15,256
Points
9,110
Age
61
Location
Rensselaer, NY
Brian: You rule!

You couldn't have made that much easier...unless you came to my house and updated my css folder yourself!

Many thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: questrider

BobO'Link

Lead Actor
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
6,525
Reaction score
7,948
Points
9,110
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
Mike, this happened to me last night too and I discovered someone had already figured out the solution.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/comments/e5md05/firefox_71_broke_my_tabs_on_the_bottom_fix/

You just have to add display: block !important; to the #TabsToolbar section of the old css code to get the tabs on bottom in your "userChrome.css" file.

Still makes me shake my head as to why Mozilla just doesn't simply add this as a preference that can be toggled.
I was coming to post the same solution...

IMHO the designers/coders are too arrogant to think anyone would want to do anything other than what they like and think is best. One of the bug threads when they first removed the "tabs on bottom" option all but said "We know best. Why would anyone want it any other way?" At least you *can* fix it with a css file - unlike Chrome whose designers just don't listen to anyone but their little group of insiders.

There are all kind of things the FF designers think are best - one of which is them removing the ability to completely block updates. You can do it but it requires a special file which has to be modified or removed to enable installing an update (basically a corporate policy file that fully blocks update checks and installation). I have a laundry list of about:config settings to revert stupid design changes and make it work like *I* want - not the designers. The sad part is 90% of those settings used to be clickable options that have been removed.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
My main approach has gradually moved into disabling most of the garbage running inside Firefox. Modifying the code is an exercise in whack-a-mole.

This means going through the Tor versions of Firefox ESR, and figuring out what garbage is being disabled deliberately. Unzipping the default omni.ja files, and reading the configuration files to see which about:config stuff is junk and what isn't.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
It is amazing how much garbage is running inside a current modern web browser.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
From reading through the code from official Tor versions of Firefox, I get the impression these guys are very very paranoid.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
I run uMatrix and AdBlockPlus. Both of those have their own stuff to backup properly. Because of those and cookies which contain data I want to preserve I've found it's easier to just backup the entire structure. Since it's portable it's as easy as stopping FF, copying the portable folder, start it up and update. If it breaks - delete the original folder and rename the backup (or copy the copy and rename that - depends on my mood).
On and off over the years, I've been using uMatrix with a minimal configuration on a separate FF profile. Basically a minimal setup where almost EVERYTHING is blocked a priori, except for 1st party css and images.

I only really used it when I'm at home and have some time and patience to figure out what stuff to allow on various web pages. After years of doing this, one recognizes the similar patterns of third party web sites css + scripts which have to be activated for various web page setups to be functional.

Easy to see what junk is coming from where.
 

jcroy

Producer
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,509
Reaction score
2,058
Points
9,110
Real Name
jr
I don't bother saving any site specific setups on uMatrix (other than blocking almost everything). Everything is done manually by hand when I'm reading a particular web site. So almost nothing to save, other than * * * block

(Occasionally updating the static blacklists).
 

Rodney

Cinematographer
Premium
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Messages
2,046
Reaction score
1,667
Points
1,610
I just downloaded and am trying out Brave browser on my Mac. So far I am really liking the speed improvement. Have only gone to a few sites, but let's see if this will be my default browser in 2020.
 

theJman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
138
Reaction score
21
Points
10
Location
New Joisey
Real Name
Jim
I've been playing with Brave for months now and it is indeed a fast browser, seems faster than any Chromium-based browser I've used anyway. I have all their protection mechanisms enabled and added uBlock Origin on top of them and it's still not sluggish.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rodney

BobO'Link

Lead Actor
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
6,525
Reaction score
7,948
Points
9,110
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
The PITA developers of FF have screwed up "tabs on bottom" once again with the v72.0.1 update.

The simple fix is to comment out (as in this example - add /* to the front of the line) the @namespace line in your userchrome.css file - yes, the very one that was required before!:

/* @namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul");

I'm ready to completely disable updates due to their seemingly increasing attack on this css modification.
 
  • Like
Reactions: questrider

ManW_TheUncool

Producer
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Messages
6,489
Reaction score
244
Points
9,110
Location
The BK
Real Name
ManW

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
343,726
Messages
4,688,151
Members
141,023
Latest member
salininbmagu