Internet Browsers: What are YOU using? (And why?)

BobO'Link

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This glitch seems to be specific to 68.0.1

It doesn't happen on my Nightly FF builds. (I upgraded Nightly two times this morning so far).
Hopefully, then, it'll shake out once they do the next incremental... I may still roll back at home - where it's far more annoying. At work everything I use is bookmarked or searched for (work stuff) and I don't do much "general" browsing.

And that also makes sense as I just allowed the 68.0.1 upgrade to install Saturday night on my home system...
 

jcroy

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I had to untoggle most of the custom *.urlbar.* changes I made in about:config, in order to see what Howie has been noticing in 68.0.1

I normally suppress all the search/suggestion stuff in the urlbar.
 

jcroy

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The GUI stuff is usually forced through arrogance - the "no one uses that" excuses when it's actually them wanting to force the way they think things should be and won't listen to outside opinion/suggestion. I've found most GUI "designers" are the same - a bunch of arrogant dolts who wouldn't know a good design if it slapped them in the face. Stuff along the lines of "Look! Isn't that pretty!?!" totally ignoring that functionality was thrown out the window in favor of a "pretty face." My workday is 25% less productive because of GUI redesigns (not just FF) that substituted form over functionality. And the form isn't that good either.
(On a tangential aside).

Have you looked into getting into a position of power, where you're calling the shots on the GUI design of FF ? (ie. Where nobody can veto any of your decisions).

If not, then there's nothing anybody can do about it, other than just not using FF at all.
 

Mike Frezon

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Well...it has happened again.

I'm running FF 70.0. I'm not sure what/when the latest update was...but it has changed one obvious behavior in my browsing--especially on the HTF.

It used to be when I would simply place my cursor over most of the drop-down menus on the HTF, they would automatically drop down on their own. But since yesterday, I have actually had to click the button to force the menu to drop-down.

In the big scheme of things...a minor annoyance. But I never understand why this functionality comes and goes like it does.
 

Rodney

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Well...it has happened again.

I'm running FF 70.0. I'm not sure what/when the latest update was...but it has changed one obvious behavior in my browsing--especially on the HTF.

It used to be when I would simply place my cursor over most of the drop-down menus on the HTF, they would automatically drop down on their own. But since yesterday, I have actually had to click the button to force the menu to drop-down.

In the big scheme of things...a minor annoyance. But I never understand why this functionality comes and goes like it does.
Well, FF automatically updated to 70 just now, and the top menus Forums Tools Reviews ,etc. all drop down when I place the cursor on it, so not sure why it isn't working for you. The very top Forum List and New posts need me to click on them.
 

BobO'Link

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Well...it has happened again.

I'm running FF 70.0. I'm not sure what/when the latest update was...but it has changed one obvious behavior in my browsing--especially on the HTF.

It used to be when I would simply place my cursor over most of the drop-down menus on the HTF, they would automatically drop down on their own. But since yesterday, I have actually had to click the button to force the menu to drop-down.

In the big scheme of things...a minor annoyance. But I never understand why this functionality comes and goes like it does.
I have that happen on a rather random basis. I run 3 different instances of FF on 3 different computers - all identical setups for FF and plugins. One day one will work properly and another requires clicking the button. Sometimes I'll get both on the same day with the same FF install. It's so random that I've stopped trying to figure out why it does that.
 

Mike Frezon

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Well, FF automatically updated to 70 just now, and the top menus Forums Tools Reviews ,etc. all drop down when I place the cursor on it, so not sure why it isn't working for you. The very top Forum List and New posts need me to click on them.
Right. NONE of those are dropping down for me by hovering.

I have that happen on a rather random basis. I run 3 different instances of FF on 3 different computers - all identical setups for FF and plugins. One day one will work properly and another requires clicking the button. Sometimes I'll get both on the same day with the same FF install. It's so random that I've stopped trying to figure out why it does that.
I thought I remembered you saying that earlier in this thread, Howie. I think I had been complaining about how it was one way for me at home and the other way for me at work.

It sucks when it randomly changes (especially in the least efficient direction). :(
 

theJman

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FF seems to struggle on different things these days. I administer very large VMware environments and it has random issues with vCenter that Chrome does not. They may still have some tweaking to do.
 

Mike Frezon

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FF seems to struggle on different things these days. I administer very large VMware environments and it has random issues with vCenter that Chrome does not. They may still have some tweaking to do.
This doesn't really explain anything since I never use Chrome (so I lack a comparison). But I do have Chrome installed on my laptop, fired it up just now, and am getting the exact same behavior: no dropdowns on anything on the HTF unless I click.
 

theJman

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It actually explains a lot, depending upon your perspective. The point of my post was FF has issues with more then just HTF, so the Gecko engine may need some refinement.
 

BobO'Link

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FF seems to struggle on different things these days. I administer very large VMware environments and it has random issues with vCenter that Chrome does not. They may still have some tweaking to do.
vCenter as a crappy JAVA browser app sucks. It's laggy/slow, more clicks to do things, just like all other browser based UI interfaces. The dedicated client install was far superior. Unfortunately, the art of programming for a machine instead of a browser is all but gone with management tools - and for the worse IMHO. You can normally trace issues with those browser apps to whatever browser the developer(s) do *not* use as most operate with blinders thinking the whole world works like they do. Good UI design is a lost art.
It actually explains a lot, depending upon your perspective. The point of my post was FF has issues with more then just HTF, so the Gecko engine may need some refinement.
I have fewer issues with FF than with any other browser. The only thing I run Chrome on is a Chromebook I use for testing work deployments/configurations and the occasional need to do a remote session with someone off network. Firefox generally outperforms Chrome in almost all areas (part of that can likely be linked to my heavy use of uMatrix and trusting only what's necessary for a site to work). I can live with those were it doesn't as I don't trust Google enough to use their browser - they have their hooks into everything (just run uMatrix a while) and Chrome is no respecter of privacy where Google's involved.
 

BobO'Link

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This doesn't really explain anything since I never use Chrome (so I lack a comparison). But I do have Chrome installed on my laptop, fired it up just now, and am getting the exact same behavior: no dropdowns on anything on the HTF unless I click.
That's really odd that you have the same issues with Chrome as with FF. Has anything changed on your router? Or at your ISP? If it weren't both browsers I'd ask about any products like AdBlock+ or uMatrix and their settings - but that won't likely be set the same on two browsers, especially when one is rarely used.

If you're on Windows - try Edge. If a Mac - try Safari. Just for grins 'n giggles...
 

Mike Frezon

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If you're on Windows - try Edge. If a Mac - try Safari. Just for grins 'n giggles...
I'm running Windows 10. So, Edge.

And I guess this is going to be further weird...but I am getting the same behavior on Edge as Chrome and FF.
 

BobO'Link

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I'm running Windows 10. So, Edge.

And I guess this is going to be further weird...but I am getting the same behavior on Edge as Chrome and FF.
That's just... screwy... It seems to point to firewall, router, or ISP issues. If you've not updated the firmware or made changes in your router I'd say ISP - but that, too, is just odd.

Do you have another computer on which to test? Or maybe on a phone that's not using the computer's connection? Or... set up a hotspot on your phone and use that instead of going through your modem/router (and make sure you're not going through the router for the phone when doing that test).
 

Mike Frezon

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Any chance its some Windows 10 update?

If I took my laptop to a place like Panera to try their wifi, would that tell us anything?
 

BobO'Link

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Any chance its some Windows 10 update?

If I took my laptop to a place like Panera to try their wifi, would that tell us anything?
Could be an update - to that end I fully updated a newer system I have but rarely use. It worked just fine with Edge and FF.

So... absolutely try another location. They *could* have the same ISP but it would be worth a shot.

The easiest would be to set up and connect to a hotspot on your phone, making sure to be on the wireless carrier's signal instead of the phone going through your router (if an iPhone simply turn off wifi and you'll be on the carrier's signal - should be the same for android but I don't have one to try - only familiar with iOS due to work - I don't own a cell phone) - unless your cell service is from the same company as your internet (i.e. both AT&T, Verizon, etc.)

Because it's affecting *every* browser you try it has to be either an update, the router, or ISP blocking something. I thought it might be JAVA somehow so made sure that newer system doesn't have it installed (doesn't and never has) - both browsers worked just fine.

Oh... here's another thought... It *could* be something with your HTF profile. When you've tried this on the different browsers are you logged in or not? If you're always logged in try logging out on one to see if the issue is still there. I just checked my settings and didn't see anything that looks like it could effect that process but you never know.
 

theJman

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vCenter as a crappy JAVA browser app sucks. It's laggy/slow, more clicks to do things, just like all other browser based UI interfaces. The dedicated client install was far superior.
VC itself uses a lot of java but the browser client is mostly HTML5 (now) or Flash (before). But like you I found the dedicated client much better than the web interface. Truth be told, VMware has made a shambles of their web client. It's on the 4th iteration and it still goes lacking. After almost a decade you would think they could get it right, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm in it all day, every day so the issues tend to get frustrating.

I have fewer issues with FF than with any other browser. The only thing I run Chrome on is a Chromebook I use for testing work deployments/configurations and the occasional need to do a remote session with someone off network. Firefox generally outperforms Chrome in almost all areas (part of that can likely be linked to my heavy use of uMatrix and trusting only what's necessary for a site to work). I can live with those were it doesn't as I don't trust Google enough to use their browser - they have their hooks into everything (just run uMatrix a while) and Chrome is no respecter of privacy where Google's involved.
I don't know that I've seen a performance difference between the two browsers - at least not with the type of activities I do - so I tend to switch back and forth depending on the situation. I definitely don't use Chrome though, because I'm also concerned over the privacy issues, but I do use Chromium which is the open source product Chrome is based on. That rips out all the 'phone home' nonsense. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that does the same thing, and they also build in privacy tools. Another Chromium-based browser that removes the google hooks, and also has a ton of extra features, is Vivaldi. If you want to experiment with a non-intrusive version of Chrome either of those might be worth checking out.
 

BobO'Link

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I don't know that I've seen a performance difference between the two browsers - at least not with the type of activities I do - so I tend to switch back and forth depending on the situation. I definitely don't use Chrome though, because I'm also concerned over the privacy issues, but I do use Chromium which is the open source product Chrome is based on. That rips out all the 'phone home' nonsense. Brave is a Chromium-based browser that does the same thing, and they also build in privacy tools. Another Chromium-based browser that removes the google hooks, and also has a ton of extra features, is Vivaldi. If you want to experiment with a non-intrusive version of Chrome either of those might be worth checking out.
I tried Vivaldi - hated it. Mostly because of the UI - all of them now seem to think the URL bar belongs *below* the tab bar. I very much prefer it to be *above* the tabs. I'm smart enough to know the tab I'm on is what's in the URL bar (something the "designers" seem to think escapes people - and the reasoning I've read for "tabs on top." I have some custom ccs applied to FF so it looks like it did before the Mozilla designers mucked about with the UI making it look like everyone else. I've not found a way to do that with any of the chromium builds. There were a few other annoying things but I just don't recall what they were - it's been too long. I just remember the horrid UI, used it about 20 minutes, couldn't find fixes for its annoying UI "features," and uninstalled it.

I won't be bothering with MS's new chromium based Edge browser for much the same reasons.

Other than some work related sites that just won't work in FF I've gotten to where I just don't bother with sites that don't work properly with FF. I sometimes send the owners a "your site is broken with FF so bye" message and move on. I don't have time to mess with issues caused by lazy "programmers" on my home systems. I deal with that enough during the work day.
 

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I tried Chredge - Chromium Edge - for about 2 months but I couldn't find any compelling use case for it. I did find reasons to uninstall it though. Bing is the default search engine and it didn't seem like there was a way to change that. Also, the new tab page was MS-custom tiles and their wallpaper. I had installed the Blank New Tab extension to get rid of that nonsense but after a few weeks Edge disabled it and wouldn't allow me to re-enable it. My guess is they removed all the Google phone-home stuff and replaced it with their own spybot so for me it just wasn't worth using.
 

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