Interesting RX-V1200 vs. AVR-2802 session (1 Viewer)

[Eujin]

I just spent a couple of hours at my local dealer doing A/B comparisons of these two receivers and found some interesting results--at least to me. Before I go any further, let me say that I've never spent any extended amount of time with Yammies before, and was a little biased by the commonly heard refrain that they tend to be overly bright. I've also been seriously thinking of upgrading my receiver to a 2802 or Outlaw 1050--still haven't decided if DPLII and DTS-ES are important enough to me. Test material was Disney's Fantasia 2000, with the DTS soundtrack. Anyway, here's what I found:

The 1200 produces a warmer sound, with better bass reproduction--the kind that you can feel in your chest, not the boomy, thumpy kind. Soundstage was also more forward on the 1200, producing a net effect of a sound that reaches out and touches you. I was VERY surprised that the 1200 sounded better in this comparison. However, the Denon seemed to have an exceedingly clear resolution. At one point, I also listened to a HTR-5490, which is supposed to be identical to the RX-V1200 on the inside. Sorry, but the 5490 did not sound nearly as good as the 1200, and I can see where those accusations of "brightness" come from. By the way, during my listening session, volume controls were set to -33 on the Yamahas and -8 on the Denon--very bizarre looking numbers, I know, but that's what the settings were to get similar volumes out of the receivers. If anyone else has done any extended listening to these receivers, I'd love some feedback and comments.

 

[Patrick Senez]

That's interesting (and disturbing) information.

I'm going to change my Marantz (SR5200) for a Yamaha and I was to take the HTR-5490 instead of the RX-V1200 because I don't need the additional features and to cut the cost down. If what you're saying is true, that the HTR doesn't sound like the RX-V, then I'll go straight for the RX-V.

Anybody else had the chance to compare a HTR and a RX-V (same model) ?

I'll probably compare them myself when the HTR arrive in Canada (end of the month).

 

[Charles J P]

Well, you have confirmed what I have already known for a few months now. The mantra that Yammies are bright is dead now. My Yamaha sounds better than the SR-6200 that it replaced.

 

[Eujin]

Patrick, I'm sorry if I've burst your bubble about the 5490--I hope you'll still go out and do an audition of both receivers. To me, the 5490 was pretty obviously inferior--I too had hoped that it would sound identical, but that was not the case with my ears. All in all, I was very impressed with the 1200, but I'm going to spend more time, hopefully tomorrow, with a more varied selection of test material. Any requests? I'll post my findings again after I've done more listening.

 

[Charles J P]

Take some music with some good bass, and do comparisons with the 1200 and other receivers, and with the speakers set to small, switch the bass redirection back and forth from subwoofer to both.

 

[Eujin]

CharlesJP, what kind of Paradigms do you have connected to your RX-V1200? I'm curious as I have an all-Paradigm set-up as well.

 

[Charles J P]

Monitor 7 v.1 CC-350 and mini monitors v.1

 

[Eujin]

Nice set-up CharlesJP. I have Monitor 5v2s, CC-170 (upgrading to CC-370 at some point) and Atoms. Glad to hear that you're enjoying your Yammie as it bodes well for my set-up. Thanks for the info!

 

[EricHaas]

The v1200 and hrt-5490 have the same internal amp and the same internal preamp. They weigh the same, and I was told by someone at Yamaha over the telephone that they are the except for two features, one being preouts.

 

[Randy Prue]

Eujin:

That's very interesting about two models "supposed to be the same" ... if it's true that the two only differ by features, and not internals, then you may have experienced what I have had happen to me many times recently.

Stereo was what I knew and enjoyed until 3 months ago. I was sound-room testing the V800, V1000, and V1200s from Yamaha, and getting very different results at different times--differences that could not be explained away by the room.

After many sessions, we began to do a full "out-of-the-box" set-up on every unit we wanted to listen to. On the V800, something sounded horrible, and when I ran through the settings for the CEQ (Center Equalizer), every range was set to +2. As I brought each one down to 0, the sound improved slightly with each one.

It becomes important to find dealers who give a damn about their sound rooms, who know enough to comply with obvious requests ("Say, have you got speakers that cost more than $50. that I could try this unit with?").

We've encountered 4 front speakers with no center; speakers turned off; outrageously unbalanced settings... doesn't make it easy, and it can make a decent unit sound like a piece of junk.

Right now, I have trouble finding any in-store demo that sounds as good as what I have at home, so the upgrade has slowed down.

 

[Eujin]

EricHaas, what can I say? I knew the specs you just quoted before I listened to the two receivers, but they just sounded different. If I hadn't heard the 1200, I'm pretty sure I would have been fairly impressed with the 5490. I wasn't pre-disposed to prefer the 1200--like I said, before this listening session I'd had virtually no experience with Yammies. I was A/B-ing the 1200 and 2802 when I noticed the 5490 was also set-up and decided to have a listen. Like you said, it doesn't have pre-amp outs so I'm not really interested in it, but I was just curious to know if there was an audible difference betwen the 1200 and its HTR sibling. If nothing else, I've come away with the conviction that absolutely NOTHING is a substitute for actual listening tests.

 

[EricHaas]

I think perception of sound quality is even more subjective than most audiophiles will admit. I am not saying that a good ear can't hear differences. But many variables come into play, as Randy pointed out. I wouldn't be surprised if you blind tested those two yammie models and it turned out that you favored a different model in each situation. I definitely agree that a good hi-fi store should pay careful attention to its sound room. In order to truly evaluate different pieces of equipment side by side, all variables must be controlled to be totally equal.

 

[Charles J P]

("Say, have you got speakers that cost more than $50. that I could try this unit with?").

Yeah, or if its a mid-price reciever "can you hook this up to something that costs less than $8,000 for the mains alone?"

and, even though the major componants are the same between the RX-V and the HT series, little things like the power supply, capicitors, quality of soldering would make a difference.

 

[Eujin]

Yeah, I know that demo rooms at most dealers aren't ideally set up--especially places that sell mid-level gear like Yammies and Denons. The dealer I went to was a Tweeter--which is the only place I know of in Boston that carries both Denon and Yamaha, and have them set up to demo. I tried to take the shortcomings of the room into consideration during my listening test, and after accounting for these factors, I came to the conclusions found in my first post on this thread. I intend to go back with my wife to do a blind A/B test--hopefully today, but inclement weather might prevent this (my wife is very good about HT stuff and she's interested in hearing the receivers in question, but she's got a touch of the flu and I can't in all good conscience drag her out on a day that's filled with nothing but slushy rain).

By the way, I made sure that all equalization effects for the receivers were turned off or set to zero before I started listening--there was some bozo in the room marvelling at the 27-inch Wega they had connected to the sound system when I first got there, so I took the opportunity to do all the receiver settings first!

 

[joe logston]

to next time you go listen take a little tape with you and put down the mark the speakers lowcation then if you go back you can tell if the speakers have been moved if the have move back to the tape to get them right it will sound differant if the speakres are moved, take a small leval to put on top to see if leval if not leval them and check each time you go back take a tape measuer make sure that the speakers are the same

distances from the back wall, and poited streate out dont angal in. make sure that both receivers are set the same delays on the speakers set as close as possible. thank you, joe logston

 

[Bill Will]

Just wondering if any knows where the 1200 & 5490 are made? Wonder if the 1200 is made in Japan & the 5490 somewhere else? That might account for the difference in sound & prices beside the outputs & etc.

 

[Page]

The 1200 is made in Malaysia.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"my wife is very good about HT stuff "

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWW

Hometheaterforum's dream wife! you are very lucky

 

[Eujin]

Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. However, if you do a search on these boards, you'll find a very long thread called "HT Wife of the Year" or something like that, with some very amusing stories and great wives and/or significant others (as well as awful ones). There are plenty of women out there who appreciate HT. The trick is finding them.

 

[Eujin]

Breck, if the 1200 I heard can be classified under the "Yamaha sound" then I'm suitably impressed. It certainly made a very good, albeit first, impression. I am heading back there this weekend to do more listening with material that I'm more familiar with. As things stand, I think if I had to pull the trigger on a receiver tomorrow, I'd probably go with the 1200--even with its fixed 90 Hz crossover.