Inside Mill Creek's Bewitched full-series release (1 Viewer)

[Nelson Au]

I’m confused. Do the Sony complete series box sets from 2013 have the first two seasons in black and white, and not colorized? I’ve gotten a refund for my Mill Creek sets. I see the 2013 Complete series box sets on eBay. So I’m going to pick one up. Am I confusing a holiday episode that was colorized from Shout only and not in the Sony set?

 

[Larry Tate]

Sony put out complete season by season DVD's for all Bewitched episodes for a particular season.

They put out 2 versions for both season one & two, one a colorized version and two a version that was colorized but with the color turned off or in grey scale as they call it.

This B/W version was not made from the original studio 35 mm B/W prints which look quite different then the grey scaled versions that were released in B/W by Sony for the first two seasons.

I’m confused. Do the Sony complete series box sets from 2013 have the first two seasons in black and white, and not colorized? I’ve gotten a refund for my Mill Creek sets. I see the 2013 Complete series box sets on eBay. So I’m going to pick one up. Am I confusing a holiday episode that was colorized from Shout only and not in the Sony set?

 

[Lecagr]

The grey scaled versions are better than nothing, I'm just glad that Sony provided this option, much better than looking at that colorized garbage.

 

[MartinP.]

^^^
It might not be your preference, but it's not garbage.

That's like saying because we didn't have a color TV when Bewitched began airing in color that
the color episodes I watched in b&w were garbage.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks guys. So the “grey scale” versions are “fake” black and white. So Sony never released a true black and white version?

I suppose this is what Mill Creek means by original broadcast episodes, aside from the Screen Gems logo. Assuming their first and second season episodes are from the real black and white sources. I did not need to return the Mill Creek sets so I’ll keep it. And then pick up the Sony box set.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Thanks guys. So the “grey scale” versions are “fake” black and white. So Sony never released a true black and white version?

I suppose this is what Mill Creek means by original broadcast episodes, aside from the Screen Gems logo. Assuming their first and second season episodes are from the real black and white sources. I did not need to return the Mill Creek sets so I’ll keep it. And then pick up the Sony box set.

If you look back in this very thread (post 58), you'll see that there's no difference between "true black and white" from Columbia House and "greyscale" from Sony. They all look the same, so there's no need to worry about what the DVD masters came from because you're getting the same colors as you would've gotten on a VHS from 1993, Nick at Nite in 1994, or, most likely, a DuMont set in 1964.

Oh, and the Mill Creek and Sony sets all came from the same masters. Whatever was used for Sony's B&W sets is what Mill Creek used.

 

[Gary Seven]

^^^
That's like saying because we didn't have a color TV when Bewitched began airing in color that
the color episodes I watched in b&w were garbage.

No it's not. I have never seen one colorized show that did not look colorized.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

No it's not. I have never seen one colorized show that did not look colorized.

Even with modern technology, they can never quite get the mouths right.

 

[LCD22]

Hi Steve,

Actually, my old Sony contact told me that the rumor about the IDOJ and BW black & white seasons not being true b&w is false. In fact he laughed at it as being financially impossible, given how tight their budgets were even at the heyday of TV on dvd, which was the dept. he worked in back then. According to him, Sony made brand new black & white masters from the surviving black & white negatives in order to do the colorization process. Those same black & white masters were indeed used for the black & white dvds. It would have cost them too much money (and for no reason) to make an ADDITIONAL set of masters, i.e colorized masters with the color removed, for the black & white dvds. So of course they used the black & white masters they already had made in order to even make the colorized masters.

I can't personally verify what he said, but I have no reason to doubt him.

And welcome to HTF!

The Sony discs are not colorized versions with the color turned off. They are the restored masters that were then delivered to be colorized. It would make absolutely no sense for Sony to create a new set of B&W masters, then colorize them, and then make a third set of masters where the color was drained from the colorized versions. The title sequence is the same version recycled throughout all of the episodes, so that's not strictly accurate, but the black and white editions are not decolorized versions.

I've read articles and interviews with people who worked on the set firsthand who verified what I said above. If there's going to be a suggestion that the B&W discs aren't the B&W shows, I will need to see some evidence strong enough to overturn statements from the people who worked on the release.

The B/W version Sony discs are the colorized versions with the color turned off or grey scaled.

You do not have make new masters to simply grey scale the colorized ones to make a B/W version, the same colorized master is used while technically the color is turned off.

The restored B/W masters were colorized in of themselves leaving no B/W masters resulting in the B/W versions having to be the colorized grey scaled versions.

This is all explained in a special extra that was included ion the Japanese DVD releases but for some unknown reason was not included in the North American versions.

But you are missing the point, the restored masters are different and look unlike the way they originally appeared in the 1960's which is what this whole B/W or Colorized argument is about.

Those B/W aficionados laud the B/W DVD release as special and vintage as in seeing the show as it was originally seen, this is simply not the case, the restored B/W prints even if they had not been colorized looked completely different after the restoration process then they had appeared originally in prime time in the 1960's.

That is why if you show a Sony B/W DVD release side by side with one of the Columbia House or Screen Gem VHS tape releases in the early 1990's or with a original studio 16 mm print they look completely different with what made the original look in B/W so special no longer in existence in the new restored B/W print.

Look and see for yourself, i have had this fact confirmed by many who have done exactly as i have just proposed in a comparative test.

 

[MartinP.]

No it's not. I have never seen one colorized show that did not look colorized.

It's the same principle. You look at colorized shows and you know they are colorized so you're looking for that and judging it. The same way I'd be looking at b&w shows that I knew were in color and wondering what the colors might be.

By the way, you do know that with the age of computers, technicians are tinkering around with the color of everything in movies nowadays. That means a whole lot of things in every movie you see are now are colorized.
But don't let that worry you.

 

[Lecagr]

^^^
It might not be your preference, but it's not garbage.

As far as I'm concerned, anything originally filmed in black and white that's been colorized is garbage. There are plenty of Bewitched episodes made in color, seasons 3 thru 8, so when I watch seasons 1 and 2, I want to view them in black and white because that's how they originally aired. Black and white, grey scaled, whatever they want to call it, makes no difference to me. I like the black and white DVD versions of Bewitched seasons 1 and 2, and also like the black and white DVD version of I Dream Of Jeannie season 1. The episodes look fine to me and I'm glad I have the black and white versions of the DVD's.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks again guys. I looked at post 58. Looks good.

So it looks like the complete series box set has the first two seasons colorized. And no option to turn off the colorized version to see black and white.

And Mill Creek used the same source as Sony for their DVDs.

In looking at Amazon and eBay, there’s sets of the first and second season available. But I can’t tell from the Amazon descriptions yet if those are from Sony. I’d be curious if one could get the Sony black and white sets anymore.

Or maybe this angst is unwarranted and the Mill Creek black and white episodes are fine. I’m just looking for the Sony complete series set as I assume there’s a slight edge in image quality over the compressed Mill Creek set. And perhaps the same is true for the first two seasons in a first and second season set from Sony. Thanks.

 

[Lecagr]

^^^
That's like saying because we didn't have a color TV when Bewitched began airing in color that
the color episodes I watched in b&w were garbage.

Not true. 1971 was the first year I had a color TV set. During the previous years when I still had only a black and white TV and watched shows made in color on the black and white set, I never said the shows looked like garbage.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Thanks again guys. I looked at post 58. Looks good.

So it looks like the complete series box set has the first two seasons colorized. And no option to turn off the colorized version to see black and white.

And Mill Creek used the same source as Sony for their DVDs.

In looking at Amazon and eBay, there’s sets of the first and second season available. But I can’t tell from the Amazon descriptions yet if those are from Sony. I’d be curious if one could get the Sony black and white sets anymore.

Or maybe this angst is unwarranted and the Mill Creek black and white episodes are fine. I’m just looking for the Sony complete series set as I assume there’s a slight edge in image quality over the compressed Mill Creek set. And perhaps the same is true for the first two seasons in a first and second season set from Sony. Thanks.

I believe even the pros say black and white compresses better than color.

And how many episodes are on the MC Discs? Because the Sony ones usually averaged 9 episodes per disc.

 

[Nelson Au]

Robert, just from checking first 4 discs from the first season, there are 12 episodes per disc on the Mill Creek set. Opps, of course the fourth disc is the second season.

 

[cinemiracle]

BEWITCHED is about to become a new television series. I doubt that it will be the same as the original classic.

 

[Larry Tate]

The B/W version Sony discs are the colorized versions with the color turned off or grey scaled.

You do not have make new masters to simply grey scale the colorized ones to make a B/W version, the same colorized master is used while technically the color is turned off.

The restored B/W masters were colorized in of themselves leaving no B/W masters resulting in the B/W versions having to be the colorized grey scaled versions.

This is all explained in a special extra that was included ion the Japanese DVD releases but for some unknown reason was not included in the North American versions.

But you are missing the point, the restored masters are different and look unlike the way they originally appeared in the 1960's which is what this whole B/W or Colorized argument is about.

Those B/W aficionados laud the B/W DVD release as special and vintage as in seeing the show as it was originally seen, this is simply not the case, the restored B/W prints even if they had not been colorized looked completely different after the restoration process then they had appeared originally in prime time in the 1960's.

That is why if you show a Sony B/W DVD release side by side with one of the Columbia House or Screen Gem VHS tape releases in the early 1990's or with a original studio 16 mm print they look completely different with what made the original look in B/W so special no longer in existence in the new restored B/W print.

Look and see for yourself, i have had this fact confirmed by many who have done exactly as i have just proposed in a comparative test.

There were something like 35 or 40 B/W Bewitched episodes put out on Columbia House or Screen Gems VHS tapes in the 1990's that are a great way to see them as they were originally seen on prime time back in the day, i have them all and even transferred them to DVD for posterity, it is like a cool time warp, but the SONY B/W DVD releases are more like a trip back to the future with the present overriding the past.

 

[Larry Tate]

If i want to watch it in B/W occasionally it is no big thing i just turn down the color, or if want a real retro vintage ambiance i watch it on my direct 16 mm print to DVD transfers of the original studio prints with all the extras like sponsor openings and end credits, Bewitched connected sponsor commercials, cast commercials, Public Service announcements by Liz or ABC Bewitched promos, ABC & Liz as Samantha intros at the very start, ABC & SG logos at the end of them,Bewitched back in a moment and other rare aspects that were only seen in the original prime time run of the show.

I am just posting for the sake of historical accuracy to prevent fans from thinking something is the case when it is not.

I think fans should know that they are getting the exact same visual outcome no matter they purchase the first two seasons in B/W or the colorized versions with the color turned off.

No need for them to purchase both and waste money when the colorized version gives them both.

I have already explained what it is and what the various prints and versions are not just so the fans know.

Actually the VHS prints on CH & SG are very good and clean and look great, especially when you do as i did transferring them directly to DVD-R SP speed, it is like you pick up a whole extra generation improvement over what a VHS VCR playback of the VHS tape provides, they selected the best 35 mm studio prints available and did a basic clean up of them, not a restoration but an improvement where the basic nature of the actual print was not changed from it's original ambiance and visual nature.

It matters not if shout, image etc own or lease rights to a show, the point is they went the extra mile in determining what their DVD sets would provide fans with loads of extras in most cases of most show DVD sets even if they did not do so with Bewitched, Sony did not and would not have done so if they did it themselves again.

 

[Larry Tate]

The CH and SG VHS tapes had 42 B/W episodes from the first 2 seasons as they were originally seen in Fall 1964/Spring 1966, the first 8 CH tapes are all B/W episodes.

With the remakes of #15 and #14 in season two with a new opening teaser scene with new footage that would make it 74 episodes and really 75 if you include

The Recut Version of the Bewitched Pilot:
"I Darrin take this witch Samantha" that was repeated on December.31,1964 in Prime Time.
It was both seen & set on New Years Eve as Darrin & Samantha got together
on their first New Years Eve together to reminisce about their wedding night where
she first told him she was a Witch.

This version is different then the original one of this episode seen on Sept.17,1964
as the first episode of Bewitched, it has a special teaser scene i described above
with all new footage in it that was not in the first showing of this episode.

The 33 B/W episodes not available on CH and SG one can see uncut as they were originally seen if you have an original studio 16 mm print as i have for most of the rest of the B/W episodes, many of the completely restored, so at least it is possible.

 

[Larry Tate]

Just look at a scene from the same episodes side by side on two TV's ( i have 3 TV's set up side by side) from both the colorized and B/W sets and you will see what it is..........and what those that have both sets have old me.................they are the same in all respects hence the confirmation that the B/W set is just the colorized set with the color turned off with as a result no difference between the two.

Likewise those that have the B/W Sony or Mill Creek sets can so the same with it and a VHS tape (i still have two SVHS VCR's) of the same scene from the same episode of a Columbia House or Screen Gems VHS tape from the early 1990's and you will see a distinct difference between the two in the original shadows, lighting, witchy feel, contrast and visual feel and ambiance present.