InFocus 4805 Performance

Discussion in 'Displays' started by John DeSantis, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had this unit since 6/20 and I have to say that I'm now less thrilled with the performance of the PJ. Maybe the Wow factor is wearing off since this is my first PJ.

    At first DVD and HD TV looked great and non HD looked OK. Now it seems either something changed or I'm expecting too much...especially from non HD TV. I was just wondering how others feel about various signals fed to this PJ.

    I realize the big screen really brings out poor signals and my lower cable channels aren't that great on any TV I have but they just seems to be a bit too snowy and have some ghosting. And also, now DVD and even HDTV don't look as good. Maybe it's me expecting too much.

    The upper channels ( non HD ) look a bit better though. I have another 10 days or so to decide if I will return it. The PJ is at 13' and using an Infocus screen. Signals feed from the HD cable Box S-Vid port to my TV look very good, but then again, it's a much smaller screen.

    All opinions welcome. Thanks
     
  2. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    12" x 13' = 156" !?

    Do you mean the pj is 13' away from the screen? What size screen is that?

    I have it at 80", though I zoom a lot to blow up the picture to 92". DVD and HDTV always looked great. NTSC so-so.

    Maybe you're itching for more res.. did you check out the 7210?
     
  3. BradJudy

    BradJudy Stunt Coordinator

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    Since it seems to be worse on lower channels than higher ones, I'm guessing you have a cable problem that is only noticable on the larger screen. I had that type of problem before with a bad cable line.
     
  4. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    The screen is an InFocus Manual Pull Down Screen: 106" Diagonal, 16x9 HDTV format, Grey. Yes, the PJ is approx. 13' from the screen. Of course this doesn't fill the screen. It's bigger than I thought it would be. But if I decide to zoom then I have the room.

    Jack: I guess what I mean by "not as good" is that the clarity, color, detail etc seem to be not as good with DVD and HD Cable as they seemed at first. I guess I shouldn't expect too much from SDTV channels. I'm using Component connections from the HD Cable Box and S-Vid from the DVD ( low cost Toshiba )

    All the settings on the PJ are standard. This is mainly because I really don't know what most of them are for. I'm talking about things like gamma, white peaking, chroma detail, luma detail, color space, etc. etc.

    I guess it would be easier if the picture controls were similar to a TV. The PJ is in low power mode and seems bright enough. But I'm wondering if you guys adjust the brightness and contrast for each source you feed it.

    Would it help to use Avia or Video essentials to make adjustments? Not sure it applies to this Technology. It would be helpfull to have a still frame to set the focus which is really sensitive.

    One thing that may be an issue is that I have 2 component cables connected together to get the length I need. They are two different brands and may be affecting things. I have a longer one on order.
     
  5. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    I'll try to address a few points as best I can to get you a better image.

    S-video from a cheaper Toshiba DVD will not get you seeing what that pj is capable of. Since you made a sizeable investment in the pj, I'd recommend you get a decent DVD player. A player that will come extremely close to giving the best possible picture from the 4805 is this one:

    http://oppodigital.com/

    I recently upgraded to it...definitely worth the modest $200.

    In any case,here's what I'd do to start:
    Connect your DVD player via component. Set the player to "480i" output (thereby letting the chip in the 4805 create the 480p picture). Set "gamma" to "CRT", "white peaking" to 0. I'd leave the others alone, or on "auto".
    Most important...calibrate! Use the THX Optimode setup section found on discs like Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, Monsters Inc, Star Wars. etc. to set your Brightness and Contrast. You can use the discs you mentioned, but you don't really need them if a disc you already own has the THX Optimode. Ideally, each source should be calibrated. That's tough to do for HDTV, as you'd need some sort of calibration pattern from your cable box. I think you'll find that doing the above will vastly improve DVD, though.

    For focusing, I move the projector's menu around to each corner using the "rear" and "ceiling" settings and use that to get the text sharp. Focus when the projector is fully warmed up, and remember it'll appear a bit out-of-focus until warmed up.
    If I recall, your pj has a bit of tilt...this may not allow all corners to be perfectly focused.
     
  6. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    Jack:
    You suggest using the Component from the DVD. I would then have to use S-Vid from the HD Cable Box. Wouldn't I lose the benefit of HD?

    Your probably right that a better DVD might help. The thing is I have 5 already spread out all over the house. But I'll consider the Opto.

    I got the Longer Component cable and will connect today. I also do have the Avia and V.E. disks. Like you said though, HDTV will be harder to set.

    Thanks
     
  7. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
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    Every once in awhile I think something is up with the 4805 and then I throw in a DVD with reference picture and then everything is better. Point being, consider the source - use reference quality material to judge the image along with calibration and maximizing the connections. Buy a quality component switcher and you won't have to choose between DVD and HD.
     
  8. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    Well the pic seems a bit better after installing the new Component Cable. Also using another DVD Player. I'm still trying different setups etc but I think source material is very critical. My non HD Channels look better and after watching a live HD broadcast I was once again impressed.

    I do have the M1 to Component adapter and I'm going to try using it which will free up the Component port. I will try the Component from the DVD without progressive and let the PJ do it's thing as Jack suggested. Still thinking about the Opto!

    So, let ya know how it goes. Been kinda busy lately and haven't had much time to fool with it.

    Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
     
  9. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    Point well taken [​IMG]

    I just hooked up a DVD Player to the M1 port using the Infocus M1 to Component adapter. It doesn't seem to change the image any over S-Vid. Have to try more media but that's my first impression. I noticed that when selecting "about" in the menu it says the source is 720 X 478 60 HZ... when using the M1 port and component adapter. Does that sound right? S-Vid says NTSC and Component port says either 1080i or 480i which seems correct.

    Maybe I'll try switching the Cable and DVD connections. Right now, the British Open HD on TNT looks real good.
     
  10. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    As I continue to try and improve the image, I decided to try the M1-DVI infocus cable. While it displayed my HD Channels OK it was worse on non HD and showed a white vertical line down the right side. I tried different settings for the output of the cable Box but nothing seemed to help.

    The only thing that did improve using this cable was the switching from HD to non HD. it required no searching etc. from the 4805. But that's the only thing that improved.

    So, I'm going to return the Cable ( 99.00 ouch ) and stick with the Component from the Cable Box and S-Vid for DVD.
     
  11. James Phung

    James Phung Second Unit

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    John,
    Are you still getting the odd resolution when using the m1 to component adapter? It seems you may be sending 480i over component into the m1 port, which is not really a good thing. (Faroudja processing is not used) and the 4805 is just doing linedoubling. If you want to stick with the m1 port over component, be sure to set your dvd player to progressive so that it will display 480p on the 4805, where your dvd player will do the deinterlacing/processing. Unless you have a very good dvd player, I'd recommend sending 480i component into the component input on the 4805, where the 4805's Faroudja processing will take over.

    SD channels look like crap over DVI for a good reason. Your stb is probably scaling (line doubling) SDTV content to whatever output resolution you have it set to. By using component and having the stb set to "pass-through" whatever output resolution it receives would give better results. This way, SDTV content will sent to the 4805 as 480i video signal where the 4805 can process it with Faroudja.
     
  12. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    James:
    I only tried the M1-Component Adapter once and did see 720 X 478 60 HZ in the menu. I'm really getting confused about the PJ's processing. It can only produce a 480P resolution at best and that will be done when it sees a 480i signal, correct?

    Infocus support told me this: " HDTV and progressive scans signals will bypass the Faroudja chipset as the Faroudja chipset deinterlaces 480i video only. In order to be able to take advantage of the Faroudja processor you would need to supply the projector with a 480i/576i video signal"

    So this means the PJ is processing my 480i signals ( non HD ) and not doing a very good job since they look worse than Cable HD and S-Vid from the DVD.

    I'm also confused about what's going on with the HD signals.
    Infocus says it will ignore anything over 480i. What is scaling the HD signals? The BOX is set to output 1080i and the PJ can't reproduce true HD, yet it seems I get the best results bypassing the Faroudja.

    As I said the PJ can't do true HD but it has to be doing something with the HD signals to make it look as good as it does. The menu indicates a 1080i signal when it's sent HD to the Component port.

    Thanks for your comments.
     
  13. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    Would I be better off setting the Cable Box to 480P with no overide? I may have tried this before. Not sure. I've made so many changes etc.

    If S-vid (480i) is getting the Faroudja processing and looks good, why doesn't it improve the 480i non HD? Some of these channels look real good on my 35" CRT.



    here is Cable Box setup: It's on one of my web pages

    http://users.zoominternet.net/~micro279/
     
  14. John DeSantis

    John DeSantis Stunt Coordinator

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    Guess your right. I've tried just about every setting, connection, and cable. So it's as good as it's going to get.

    For DVD S-Vid is pretty good

    For Cable It seems the best setup is Component from the Cable Box ( set at 1080i with 480i overide.) HD Looks great and SD so so.

    Thanks
     
  15. James Phung

    James Phung Second Unit

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    Unless I am mistaken, you are sending 480i from cable via DVI from the cable box. DVI is coming from through the 4805 into the m1 port. The 4805 will not correctly process (use Faroudja) over an 480i content that comes through the m1 port.

    Though, it seems that your cable box is already scaling 480i SDTV to 720p/1080i to begin with. You need to either set your cable box to output 480i in addition to 720p/1080i. However, in order to have faroudja process 480i from your box, it has to come through composite, svideo, or component (using the 4805's main component input at 480i, not the m1 component adapter).

    As a test, hook the cable box via svideo and view sdtv channels. Do they look any better? They should as Faroudja is doing processing in this case.

    EDIT: Looks like you got the idea. Though I'd recommend getting a component switch so you can send both dvd and cable via component.
     

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