In wall & Subwoofer Help (1 Viewer)

[Mayday0017]

I have spent some time over past couple weeks reading and researching around this forum among several others. I close on my first home tomorrow and I am looking to install some speakers right away. I recently sold some Boston Acoustic towers out of the VR series. I am wanting to do in wall speakers and my problem is that I want to get in the same ball park as the Bostons however since I am buying a new home, the stereo doesn't have enough priority to tie up much of my budget. I have read up (as much as I can) on the Proficient Audio speakers and they come with great reviews. I have read that Outdoorspeakerdepot.com sells them under their label for a saveings, however I am able to obtain Proficient Audio at dealer cost through a local friend and they are still cheaper then the OSD version.


IN WALL


Considering Proficient Audio IW625 - LCR

Reason- Good reviews on Proficient Audio, listened to the W690, felt the highs were a little harsh (bright) I associated this with the aluminum tweeters in them so that steered me away from the IW650 speakers. I also felt there was to much "gap" between the in walls and the subs and I expect the extra 6.5" woofer to help make up for this. (However i realize it could of just been how the person had the Reciever/Eq/Crossovers adjusted). My cost is right at $200 per speaker (in case anyone wants to make another recomendation)


Considering Polk Audio RC85i - LCR

Reason- Good reviews everywhere you look (question is what were the people expecting) Have not had a chance to listen to these in walls yet however I have been very impressed with Polk speakers over the years in both home and car audio solutions. But at the price point of $80ea (160pr shipped) do I think I will really be satisfied with the speakers? I have learned over the years cost does not make one speaker better then another, however normally it is a more off brand name that you would expect exceptional performance from at a reduced cost.


Considering building my own in walls

I have attempted to do research to find others who have built custom in wall setups and have not had much luck. I have built several enclosures in the car audio world and have even attended a school when I was younger and thought car audio was what I wanted to do with my life. I have all the tools and skills to work with almost any material so the building of a structure will not be an issue however it would take some serious time and research to build fully sealed in walls that can be installed in an existing structure and still meet all requirements. The idea that got me at this point was the fact I have a set of Maudio studio monitors on my computer and they sound excellent (two of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard) Over the years that I have owned them I have had to replace tweeters for a number of reasons (mostly cause people like to push them) and learned that the drivers are relatively in expensive and would consider replicating the enclosure they are in but sticking it in the wall. At a quick glance it looks very doable....



IN CEILING


Considering Proficient Audio C650 - 5.1 rears

Reason - My couch has to be up against the rear wall due to layout and size of living room, from my understanding this makes in wall speakers less "ideal". I am ok with this as I believe in ceilings in this case would be more cosmetically pleasing. I am also unable to put them directly to right and left of listener as would be more ideal do to a exterior door on one side and the other side opening up into kitchen. The way I arrived at the choice of the C650 is it has the woofer and tweeter both at an angle allowing me to direct both sounds instead of just the tweeter alone. I am imagining placing them a couple/few feet from the rear wall facing at the rear wall at an angle twords the viewer I can use the "bounce" off the rear wall to simulate that the sound is coming from behind the viewer. Would this be a correct assumption? My cost on these speakers are around $80ea ($190set)


Considering Polk Audio RC60i - 5.1 rears

Reason - These were found earlier in my searching and really have almost ruled them out but alway like feedback to make sure my reasoning for it would be correct. These speakers on their own I'm sure sound compairable to the polks listed above, however with them being above me and seeing no mention of adjustable tweeters. I will not be able to direct the high freq any direction other then down and this would be much less then ideal for a ceiling mounted rear surround. Price point however is cheap at $45 per woofer shipped ($89pr)



SUBWOOFER


I haven't done much research yet in this area as honestly it is the least of my concern for now. Game plan is to get the fronts and rears figured out and installed so I can have some music in the house while I work on other projects such as painting. However I have done a little research on IB setups and would consider doing this assuming in Attic install is ok even with the excessive heat the speakers would be exposed to. Also have seen the Dayton kit (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770) and seen good reviews both on here and on PE website. So please feel free to toss information out to me on subwoofer. Naturally i would like to do in wall or in ceiling type of setup and IB sounds like it could be a quick easy and affordable solution with exceptional sound so I very much like the idea. However I would most likely be wanting to do a single 15" sub setup. Can someone provide me with pics from drywall side and back side of IB setups? I am in the market of about $300max for a subwoofer setup.


Receiver has not been mentioned yet as I will be using an older Onkyo receiver for now until I get more settled into the house and make a selection on new tv and other electronics.

 

[CB750]

Have you listened to any custom installations that have used any of the speakers that you are looking at. If not then you are buying and installing speakers with little idea of what they will sound like. Most of us recommend against in-wall speakers and like in-ceiling speakers even less if your goal is quality surround sound.


It seems that you are very happy with the stand alone speakers you have owned so why the change, what are you hoping to accomplish? Nothing that you write indicates to me that in-wall and in-ceilings speakers would be a good choice for your new home.

 

[Mayday0017]

I agree in wall/ceiling will very rarely if ever sound like quality towers and such will. However due to the room size and the over all appearance I am going for anything other then in walls won't do. The problem I am having is finding the speakers I am interested in available on display... So I will have to be brave and rely mostly on what others think, and listen to what products available out of the same line that I can listen to and use it as a reference point (as I have done w/ the proficient audio speakers).

 

[Robert_J]

DIY in-wall - http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=phantom

You can also use the MTM version of the Dayton Home Theater design as an in-wall as well. It is similar to this except a more expensive crossover and an aluminum dome tweeter. I'm building the cabinet versions.


Here's a few pictures of an IB sub:

http://ibsubwoofer.blogspot.com/

http://www.garagehobbies.com/ib.aspx


Always construct IB subs in pairs on a manifold where the drivers are opposing. This keeps vibrations to a minimum. If you pick up a driver that is connected to an amp, you can't hold it still. It will shake you like a jack-hammer. Connect that to your wall and it will shake your house the same way. These guys that use arrays of large subs have to go overboard on the bracing to keep the vibrations to a minimum.

 

[Philip Hamm]

If you can do an Infinite Baffle sub - that IS THE WAY TO GO!!!! Mine absolutely ROCKS THE HOUSE and sounds incredibly fantastic, even at low volumes. The smoothest most natural bass I've ever heard at any price. I used Dayton Parts Express purpose-marketed "Infinite Baffle" drivers. They work fine but if I had it to do again I'd probably buy elsewhere. Parts Express stuff tends to be fairly expensive for what it is, and there are plenty of other drivers out there.


As for in-walls and in-ceilings, if you've read my responses here in the past you won't be surprised.... I have Proficient brand in-ceiling speakers in my house in various places. I use them for stereo sound in the main level and rear surround in my bedroom. Based on my limited experience, I can recommend the brand. Mine sound very nice, and I'd expect their more expensive models to sound even better than mine.


Here is a picture of my dual 15" manifold IB from the rear:





I agree with Robert's recommendation of drivers in pairs facing each other. That does minimize vibration, though when this thing is going, it still shakes the whole house. One thing to remember about the IB design and in-wall installations in general is that you'll need lots and lots of power. Most in-walls and in-ceiling speakers end up using the wall as an enclosure and basically they act as infinite baffle enclosures, or if they are on insulated walls, they may be tightly coupled with insulation in the rear - you may need to build or buy small in-wall enclosures. Either situation is not very efficient, so you need lots of amplification power to get sound.

Most IB subs that you see on the Internet are over-built. It's never a bad idea to over build a speaker enclosure, particularly when you have big drivers vibrating like nuts. However, based on my experience, cheap basic 3/4" plywood with plenty of bracing is perfectly adequate for more modest IB use.


Here's the front - it's behind an HVAC air return grate; COMPLETELY stealth.