Ricky T
Supporting Actor
- Joined
- Oct 28, 1999
- Messages
- 921
OTHER EQUIPMENT
NHT speakers: 3.3 mains, AC2, 1.5 sides, superzero rears, two rear/LFE sw3p subs
Citation 5.1 amps: two, each 100x4, can bridge pairs to 300x1
Panasonic RP91 progressive dvd, cd transport
Hughes Direct TV receiver, with digital out
SETUP
3.3s and AC2 are 10 feet away, 1.5s are on 40inch stands five feet to each side, subs are my end tables.
Unfortunately, my couch is only 10 inches from the back wall/window. So my superzeros are behind the couch, near the floor, pointed towards the ceiling. I am quite sure this setup and my room is not how Onkyo and Lexicon want you to position their rear centers!
I only have 8 citation amp channels and 9 passive speakers. So I am using one amp channel in the Onkyo 989 (via mains-in preouts) to drive one NHT 1.5 side. Since I previously used the Onkyo to drive my rears/sides, I was sending 300x3 to my mains and center….now an unbridged 100x3. The center seems to be playing loud enough with the MC1 though.
Originally, I intended to hook up the Lex to the Onkyo 5.1 inputs and use an analog switcher for the rear speakers. This would enable a/b’ing on the fly. But the video inputs and OSD needs got too complicated, so I gave up. The Onkyo is currently utilized as a monoblock
2 CHANNEL DAC, DETAIL/RESOLUTION, DYNAMICS
Since I can’t a/b, comparing 2 channel performance is tough. Not only do I have to go on memory for the Onkyo, but I can’t level match. I did a/b on the fly the 989 dacs vs my previous Sony scd-333es sacd redbook dacs, and felt the Onkyo was at least as good. I think the MC1’s 2 channel is a little better…with a wider, more expansive soundstage. However, the 989 holds its own for detail, resolution, and dynamics for both 2 channel and surround. CALL IT EVEN.
LOGIC 7 VS DPL2
I watched Mortal Combat and Spawn on Direct TV in 2.0 Logic 7. It sounded like I was watching a DVD in 5.1. Better than DPL2 for 2.0 movies and CDs. With the adjustments, DPL2 can blend in with the mains and create a wider, more defined front soundstage than stereo. If you like listening to CDs in stereo, DPL2 music with adjustments has a better chance to grow on you than Logic 7 (or Music Logic), because the DPL2 rears are more subtle. BIG EDGE: MC1.
5.1 LOGIC 7 VS DISCRETE 6.1
I have two 6.1 DVDs that sounded awesome on the 989: Gladiator in 6.1 DTS and Phantom Menace in DD-EX.
I watched Gladiator on the AC3 5.1 sound-track in Logic 7. Wow! At times, the rear soundstage was bigger than the front sound stage! Is Logic 7 better than 6.1? Probably depends on the DVD and what you prefer. So far, I’d describe the 989’s 6.1 soundstage as smaller but tighter, more refined. The MC1’s Logic 7 soundstage can be bigger, but perhaps looser. Also, you can switch the MC1 to Surround EX easily enough with one setting. EVEN.
5.1 LOGIC 7 VS STRAIGHT 5.1 AC3/DTS
Since I already mentioned that Logic 7 can make some DVDs the equal of a 6.1 DVD, and 6.1 is better than 5.1 on the same DVD, one can conclude that Logic 7 improves over 5.1. The MC1 allows me to a/b on the fly. I will test this over the next few days; I think it depends on the DVDs. So far, Logic 7 is a winner. EDGE: MC1.
I might rank the following in terms of enjoyment for movie sound on a scale of 1 to 10 (in my system and room):
TV’s speakers = 1
Stereo towers = 3
DPL1 = 4
6 Axis = 6
DPL2 = 6.5
2.0 Logic 7 = 8 (DVD/CD signal, not weaker DSS signal)
5.1 = 9
5.1 Logic 7 = 9.7
6.1 = 10
SONIC FLEXIBILITY
The Logic 7 numbers might get better as I learn to use the MC1 flexibility and adjustable sound parameters. The MC1 has the ability to adjust all kinds of sound parameteres by sound mode (ie, stereo, ac3, 5.1 Logic 7); such as LFE, subwoofer, center width and boost, rear, panorama, neutral/front/rear soundstage, rear speaker frequency rolloff (~ 5k to 20k hz), Bass Enhance, etc. So much,…I’m still learning. The Onkyo 989 is also very flexible. And DPL2-music has three nice adjustable parameters. In the end, the MC1 is like a computer than allows you to cater the sound you prefer, for your room. EDGE: MC1.
ALL OTHER FEATURES.
For speakers set to small, MC1 has 40, 80, or 120hz. Onkyo is fixed 80hz. Doesn’t affect my setup too much as my 3.3s and as big as my subs, so I can set them to large. People might like 40hz on their mains for 2 channel integration with the sub.
Onkyo wins with: 5.1 inputs, direct mode, more source inputs, component video switching (three inputs at 50hz), easier to use, learning remote (but I have a Marantz RC2000II and prefer the Lexicon remote for processor only use), AC2 demodulator for LDs, true upgradeability not trade-in (I did the amazing $50 DPL2/DTS-discrete upgrade last year myself, and hear rumors of another upgrade coming this year), intelligent volume (allows you to basically put on sources on the same master volume level), built-in tuner. BIG EDGE: ONKYO 989.
THE WINNER IS…..
In the end of the day, this is basically a $6k Lexicon MC1 against a $2500 prepro (if Onkyo took out the amps and made a prepro, the B&K Ref30/AVR307 similarities, among others, would arise). And Lexicon vs other processors comes down to the unique Logic 7 and fantastic Lexicon surround processing/steering. For me, YES, Logic 7 is worth it because the MC1 makes my four sources all sound better (Direct TV, DVDs, CDs, Xbox games). $2100 for a mint MC1 that Lexicon owners say sounds very close to the $10k MC12, I’m a very happy camper.
For others with different needs (2 channel, discrete dvd playback, 5.1 inputs, component video switching, proven software upgradeability to new formats), the Onkyo may be the better choice and value. The 989 (extra noise from internal amps and all) is right up there with the MC1 in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics...and looks way better With the inherent ability to improve two channel by hooking up a sacd/dvd-audio with new high resolution formats and/or superb dacs. Anybody want a mint Onkyo 989
NHT speakers: 3.3 mains, AC2, 1.5 sides, superzero rears, two rear/LFE sw3p subs
Citation 5.1 amps: two, each 100x4, can bridge pairs to 300x1
Panasonic RP91 progressive dvd, cd transport
Hughes Direct TV receiver, with digital out
SETUP
3.3s and AC2 are 10 feet away, 1.5s are on 40inch stands five feet to each side, subs are my end tables.
Unfortunately, my couch is only 10 inches from the back wall/window. So my superzeros are behind the couch, near the floor, pointed towards the ceiling. I am quite sure this setup and my room is not how Onkyo and Lexicon want you to position their rear centers!
I only have 8 citation amp channels and 9 passive speakers. So I am using one amp channel in the Onkyo 989 (via mains-in preouts) to drive one NHT 1.5 side. Since I previously used the Onkyo to drive my rears/sides, I was sending 300x3 to my mains and center….now an unbridged 100x3. The center seems to be playing loud enough with the MC1 though.
Originally, I intended to hook up the Lex to the Onkyo 5.1 inputs and use an analog switcher for the rear speakers. This would enable a/b’ing on the fly. But the video inputs and OSD needs got too complicated, so I gave up. The Onkyo is currently utilized as a monoblock
2 CHANNEL DAC, DETAIL/RESOLUTION, DYNAMICS
Since I can’t a/b, comparing 2 channel performance is tough. Not only do I have to go on memory for the Onkyo, but I can’t level match. I did a/b on the fly the 989 dacs vs my previous Sony scd-333es sacd redbook dacs, and felt the Onkyo was at least as good. I think the MC1’s 2 channel is a little better…with a wider, more expansive soundstage. However, the 989 holds its own for detail, resolution, and dynamics for both 2 channel and surround. CALL IT EVEN.
LOGIC 7 VS DPL2
I watched Mortal Combat and Spawn on Direct TV in 2.0 Logic 7. It sounded like I was watching a DVD in 5.1. Better than DPL2 for 2.0 movies and CDs. With the adjustments, DPL2 can blend in with the mains and create a wider, more defined front soundstage than stereo. If you like listening to CDs in stereo, DPL2 music with adjustments has a better chance to grow on you than Logic 7 (or Music Logic), because the DPL2 rears are more subtle. BIG EDGE: MC1.
5.1 LOGIC 7 VS DISCRETE 6.1
I have two 6.1 DVDs that sounded awesome on the 989: Gladiator in 6.1 DTS and Phantom Menace in DD-EX.
I watched Gladiator on the AC3 5.1 sound-track in Logic 7. Wow! At times, the rear soundstage was bigger than the front sound stage! Is Logic 7 better than 6.1? Probably depends on the DVD and what you prefer. So far, I’d describe the 989’s 6.1 soundstage as smaller but tighter, more refined. The MC1’s Logic 7 soundstage can be bigger, but perhaps looser. Also, you can switch the MC1 to Surround EX easily enough with one setting. EVEN.
5.1 LOGIC 7 VS STRAIGHT 5.1 AC3/DTS
Since I already mentioned that Logic 7 can make some DVDs the equal of a 6.1 DVD, and 6.1 is better than 5.1 on the same DVD, one can conclude that Logic 7 improves over 5.1. The MC1 allows me to a/b on the fly. I will test this over the next few days; I think it depends on the DVDs. So far, Logic 7 is a winner. EDGE: MC1.
I might rank the following in terms of enjoyment for movie sound on a scale of 1 to 10 (in my system and room):
TV’s speakers = 1
Stereo towers = 3
DPL1 = 4
6 Axis = 6
DPL2 = 6.5
2.0 Logic 7 = 8 (DVD/CD signal, not weaker DSS signal)
5.1 = 9
5.1 Logic 7 = 9.7
6.1 = 10
SONIC FLEXIBILITY
The Logic 7 numbers might get better as I learn to use the MC1 flexibility and adjustable sound parameters. The MC1 has the ability to adjust all kinds of sound parameteres by sound mode (ie, stereo, ac3, 5.1 Logic 7); such as LFE, subwoofer, center width and boost, rear, panorama, neutral/front/rear soundstage, rear speaker frequency rolloff (~ 5k to 20k hz), Bass Enhance, etc. So much,…I’m still learning. The Onkyo 989 is also very flexible. And DPL2-music has three nice adjustable parameters. In the end, the MC1 is like a computer than allows you to cater the sound you prefer, for your room. EDGE: MC1.
ALL OTHER FEATURES.
For speakers set to small, MC1 has 40, 80, or 120hz. Onkyo is fixed 80hz. Doesn’t affect my setup too much as my 3.3s and as big as my subs, so I can set them to large. People might like 40hz on their mains for 2 channel integration with the sub.
Onkyo wins with: 5.1 inputs, direct mode, more source inputs, component video switching (three inputs at 50hz), easier to use, learning remote (but I have a Marantz RC2000II and prefer the Lexicon remote for processor only use), AC2 demodulator for LDs, true upgradeability not trade-in (I did the amazing $50 DPL2/DTS-discrete upgrade last year myself, and hear rumors of another upgrade coming this year), intelligent volume (allows you to basically put on sources on the same master volume level), built-in tuner. BIG EDGE: ONKYO 989.
THE WINNER IS…..
In the end of the day, this is basically a $6k Lexicon MC1 against a $2500 prepro (if Onkyo took out the amps and made a prepro, the B&K Ref30/AVR307 similarities, among others, would arise). And Lexicon vs other processors comes down to the unique Logic 7 and fantastic Lexicon surround processing/steering. For me, YES, Logic 7 is worth it because the MC1 makes my four sources all sound better (Direct TV, DVDs, CDs, Xbox games). $2100 for a mint MC1 that Lexicon owners say sounds very close to the $10k MC12, I’m a very happy camper.
For others with different needs (2 channel, discrete dvd playback, 5.1 inputs, component video switching, proven software upgradeability to new formats), the Onkyo may be the better choice and value. The 989 (extra noise from internal amps and all) is right up there with the MC1 in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics...and looks way better With the inherent ability to improve two channel by hooking up a sacd/dvd-audio with new high resolution formats and/or superb dacs. Anybody want a mint Onkyo 989