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In Defense of JAMES HORNER... (1 Viewer)

Nick Martin

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Well I've never done that before, and didn't know I had that ability.

This thread was meant to talk about appreciating Horner's music, not dragging that reuse crap out again and again again and again again and again again and again again and again again and again again and again....you get what I'm saying?
 

Nick Martin

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Can a moderator close this thread, please?

It's turned out to be something of a disappointment for me, and I'd like it closed.
 

MatthewLouwrens

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What exactly were you hoping for?

"I like James Horner"
"I like him too"
"So do I"

Frankly, a bunch of people expressing the same opinion and refusing to let other people express their views because you dislike it would just be boring. It might make you feel happy, it might form a nice Horner-fan support group, bracing yourself about the cold hard cruel Horner-hating world, but there would be no discussion, no dialogue of any substance at all. And that would just be dull.

You say And people are providing answers. You can't complain about people bringing out the same old "reuse" argument because that really is what people dislike about him.

I have enjoyed Horner's music, I think when he is doing new work he really can be good, but all too often he can fall into a pattern of just reusing (with very minor alteration) his music. Yes, other film score composers can do that on occasion, but Horner does it more than most, over and over again. And that is a legitimate source of frustration for people.
 

Nick Martin

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So it seems as though you are saying it's good that this is how the thread plays out:
" I think Horner reuses his music"
" Yeah, I think so too"
" Me three"
Lather, rinse, repeat.

By the way, I don't think you have a clue as to how well aware I am of the simple fact that James Horner is quite probably the most hated composer of modern times- and not just by film music fans. It's almost as though people here are surprised that I don't have a problem with his music, as though that isn't normal because everyone here does have a problem with it.
 

Nick Martin

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Yeah, cause no one in their right mind could ever not have a problem with his music, and want to defend him...must be stupid, or lack morals...

I often wonder, what do the bashers and/or general fans who complain about his music think of people like me- who don't see a problem? Do they think people like me (and there are others who don't have a problem with it, but they don't post here, it seems) lack a sense of, what's the word I'm looking for, integrity, morals, as I said above?

No, I'm not Mr. Horner.

He doesn't live in a shithole town like Oshawa, in a building populated with asshole potsmokers who blast rock music and throw beer bottles of their balconies...Sorry, a bit too personal.

Besides, I'm sure he doesn't give the slightest damn about all the haters out there- he's still one of the most sought after composers working today, he's obviously quite wealthy, always comes across as a genuinely nice person who just loves to make music- no matter what anyone thinks of it, and has consistently put out music that is far more original then he's given credit for.
 

Jay Pennington

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Sorry, Nicholas. :frowning: When the folks on the Titanic thread wanted the Horner discussion taken elsewhere, I thought it was better to transplant it to an older, more relevant thread than to start a new one, but in this case perhaps I picked the wrong one to revive.
 

Kevin M

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You know, as I go back over this thread I don't see all this abject hate for Horner that you see, I see a few absolutes but mostly I see people who actually like his work but do notice when he re-uses cues......at the same time they also say that most film composers do this and that is the nature of film composing. In fact I don't see the harsh arguing that you do Nick.....are you upset because the thread was more congenial than you wanted because compared to most "debate" threads this one is fairly well rounded and behaved.
 

MatthewLouwrens

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You started the thread by asking what people dislike about Horner's music. Now you're complaining that people are telling you, simply because you've already heard it?

The reason why people keep raising the reuse argument is because that is what they do not like about Horner's music. Pure and simple. In fact, looking through the thread, I find a lot of people using words like "frustrated" and "disappointment" in connection with James Horner, simply because we recognise that he can be an excellent composer but at times fails to live up to expectations because he goes back to the cues we all know. This disappoints us, because we hope for more because we know he can give us more.
 

Kevin M

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It's not like we are saying Horner is the only one doing it, in fact I don't even think he is the worst example.....John Barry IMO is far worse at repeating themes/moods in his scores. Mind you I love his scores but you have to admit that on a quick run-though many of his scores sound the same...many, not all.
 

Nick Martin

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Okay, how about a bit of a change, while sticking to this subject:

Why does this whole reuse issue bother people?

Instead of just saying 'it's annoying', or 'he's lazy' and leaving it at that, explain a little more.

Is part of it that you never want to hear a similar theme again? for example: Listening to "The Wedding" track from 'Bicentennial man', the section used in the 'Braveheart' end credits comes up.
I hear this and think 'Wow. I've always loved that bit of music. It's so powerful, and I like what he's done with it here'.

Someone else hears this same thing and goes, 'Ugh! Why is that there? I don't want to hear that ever again!

Now, the latter could be due to seeing the film and hearing another movie's theme pop up, which as I've read here, distracts some of you. But what about listening to it on a CD- is it the same sort of distraction when not hearing it within the context of the film?

I buy his CDs based on his name alone- and often I am compelled to see the film itself afterwards. As stand-alone music, would you still find it a bad thing if you hear something you're familiar with, but enjoyed that first time?
 

Kevin Grey

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As mentioned many times because it takes you out of the movie. Instead of being wrapped up in what's going on, you immediately think "wait, didn't I hear this cue in 'Clear and Present Danger'" or even worse "Where have I heard this before" and you spend the next several moments trying ot place it instead of watching the movie.

It's one of the reasons I've never really wanted to see a test screening- they typically use temp tracks and I don't want to be distracted by hearing familiar music over new images unless that is specifically the director's intent (which is common with licensed music).
 

Jay Pennington

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Speaking of temp tracks, their existence is one reason for same or similar cues being used in the final score. The director falls in love with the temp track and the composer is forced to score new music that sounds just like it. Or the composer allows himself to be unduly influenced by it.

John Williams, for one, never screens a film with the temp score in it for that reason.
 

Nick Martin

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James Horner has said before he does like temp scores, because he wants to have an understanding of exactly what a director wants, without any potentially unpleasant surprises. In the early days of his career, directors wanted him to just stick with the temp score in terms of overall style (like 'Battle Beyond the Stars'). "Titanic" is a prime example, since director Jim Cameron temp-tracked the film with a lot of Enya's music - hence the ship chorus in the similar driving rhythm of her 'Book Of Days' song. On the original "Field Of Dreams" DVD, Horner and director Phil Robinson discuss the temp score and its influence of Horner's final score.

Oh, and much love for "Willow" and "Krull" right here!!!


I find that the scores that really stick with me are ones that most of you would likely forget about entirely, like one of my all-time favorites, "To Gillian On Her 37th Birthday". So elegant, so restrained, so incredibly beautiful.
 

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