What's new

In case it wasn't abundantly clear, Apple's focus is on the consumer not on the pro / enthusiast / d (1 Viewer)

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Toys:

http://www.eoshd.com/entry.php?57-Exclusive-Interview-with-Kevin-Shahinian-of-Pacific-Pictures-City-of-Lakes

Edited in CS _4_ BTW, not 5....

Sam
 

Astrakan

Auditioning
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
7
Real Name
Kenneth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
They guard the keys to their kingdom so jealously I doubt they'd ever let go of a division/branch that had insider knowledge of Apple's comings and goings.
They could sell a brand without including the division that worked on it. In the consumer goods industry (Procter & Gamble, et al) that's pretty common place. Meaning, they could sell off the rights to the Final Cut suite to a company like Digidesign without including any of their workforce, allowing for Digidesign to use the Final Cut name and publish the next version of the software.
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,385
Kenneth, I know it is done throughout the business world. I'm saying that Apple itself hasn't shown that they like the strategy of selling off bits of what constitutes their empire. I can't think of one example off the top of my head.
 

DaveF

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
28,687
Location
Catfisch Cinema
Real Name
Dave
Now, to contradict my previous comment: I'm surprised that Apple can't staff up to improve product lines currently neglected. Getting an ace developer for pro audio / video software is not necessarily going to be the same ace dev you'd want for your mobile product line. It seems you could get top-flight people for these separate activities without cannibalizing one for the other.
 

Ted Todorov

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Messages
3,706
Originally Posted by DaveF

Now, to contradict my previous comment: I'm surprised that Apple can't staff up to improve product lines currently neglected. Getting an ace developer for pro audio / video software is not necessarily going to be the same ace dev you'd want for your mobile product line. It seems you could get top-flight people for these separate activities without cannibalizing one for the other.
You bring up an excellent point: is a first rate programmer easily shiftable between completely different kinds of programming? I'd say the answer is: "it depends", but certainly yes in some cases.

Apple programmer shifts that have reached the press (or at any rate Daring Fireball) have included moving people from Final Cut Pro to Aperture, when Aperture 1.0 bombed with the reviewers, and several reports of Mac OS X people being sent to help with "all hands" iPhone OS operations, they latest dating to right now, with iPhone OS 4.0 taking priority over 10.7

While FCP people may not end up in the OS X team, they are surely fungible among different app. dev teams -- any number of which (Safari/Webkit, Mail, iBooks, iWork, iLife, MobileMe, etc.) may have higher priority than the pro stuff at any given point.
 

Brian W. Ralston

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 4, 1999
Messages
605
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
Brian W. Ralston
Thanks for sharing that interview Sam...but did you notice in that interview, Shahinian said himself he is in the "art-house, low-fi HDSLR film making camp" And also referred to his equipment and project as pushing the envelope of the "consumer HDSLR concept."

While DSLR cameras look better than ever before, they still do not hold a candle to industry standards out there for feature film making. Blow that up to a theater screen and one will start to see its limitations. And that does not even get close to needing cameras that can wirelessly synch frame rates and timecode to in-field sound recording, or shots that need to pull focus, etc...

And no disrespect intended to filmmaker Shahinian...he is talented with his DSLR, but I have never heard of Pacific Pictures until now. And when one goes to their website and sees nothing but "concept" Bollywood films and custom/personalized wedding videos...it makes me smirk.

Add to that one wedding video example from his site that uses a Thomas Newman score cue (which I am sure he does not have the rights to use in his "Pacific Pictures" videos)...and I can only think that perhaps if he wanted folks to respect his work a little more...he should begin by not disrespecting the copyrighted material of others in his productions.
 

Ted Todorov

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Messages
3,706
Heard/read that the last couple of the current season's House episodes were shot on a Canon DSLR camera -- it may not be a Red, but presumably you can do a lot more with it due to the way lower weight/smaller size and it being like 1/8th the price doesn't hurt too much either.

In the long run (five years?) my guess will be that a huge chunk of professional film/TV making will go in that direction, just as many talented cinematographers have made the shift from 35mm to digital. At the 2009 NYFF, pretty much anytime someone asked about an especially visually arresting film, the answer was "we shot it on Red". I can see a future where they are all answering "I shot it on my DSLR".
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian W. Ralston

While DSLR cameras look better than ever before, they still do not hold a candle to industry standards out there for feature film making. Blow that up to a theater screen and one will start to see its limitations. And that does not even get close to needing cameras that can wirelessly synch frame rates and timecode to in-field sound recording, or shots that need to pull focus, etc...

And no disrespect intended to filmmaker Shahinian...he is talented with his DSLR, but I have never heard of Pacific Pictures until now. And when one goes to their website and sees nothing but "concept" Bollywood films and custom/personalized wedding videos...it makes me smirk.
OK, How about Rick McCallum, his opinion mean anything to you? How about Shane Hurlbut?
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

We are at the tip of the iceberg here Brian. I surely don't have the 'real' industry insight that you do, but I think anyone who is in the industry who blows this technology off as toys for wannabees is in danger of dinosauring themselves here. I've never seen any similar advance excite so many people in different but related fields. (Well, maybe the iPhone & iPad, but that's a bit different but still relevant!)

I remember similar blowoffs by stills photographers when the Digital Rebel came out for under $1k. Look where we are today, just a few short years later. Of course today the results from a pro are still going to blow away the results from an amateur regardless of what they are shooting with, but you have to admit that the advances that amateur stills shooters have gotten just by access to this low cost high quality technology are inarguable.

Sam
 

Brian W. Ralston

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 4, 1999
Messages
605
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
Brian W. Ralston
Technology will always advance. Things will always get better. No doubt. But the tools of the trade the industry uses are chosen for good measure. Do those tools change over time? Yes. Do they change (read..."become common place") at the same rate as consumer electronics? No.

Why does this seem to be an emotionally charged issue for you Sam? Just curious.
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Originally Posted by Brian W. Ralston

Technology will always advance. Things will always get better. No doubt. But the tools of the trade the industry uses are chosen for good measure. Do those tools change over time? Yes. Do they change (read..."become common place") at the same rate as consumer electronics? No.
Why does this seem to be an emotionally charged issue for you Sam? Just curious.

Because I have seen and heard it all before. I saw it with computer programming, I saw it with home computers, I saw it with the internet, I saw it with digital photography, and we've seen it actually happen repeatedly with video. People scoff at those with less experience, budget, and skills coming into their back yard and yet the markets always explode when things hit that proverbial tipping point and things that people didn't know they might want to do all of a sudden become interesting, fun and achievable. I'm very excited that something I've always had an interest in but didn't have the resources to do it right is barreling towards a renaissance. If I'm right this will literally change industries in ways that other recent advances haven't. Time will tell!
 

DavidJ

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Messages
4,365
Real Name
David
BTW, the DSLR video revolution and the RED cameras are having a profound effect on other manufacturers-- all you have to do is look at the NAB announcements from ARRI, Sony and Panasonic. Personally, I think it is a great thing for the industry.
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,385
Sam, I don't think anyone doubts that revolutionary changes can (and does) happen from those innovators who are not"in the system" and working with limited budgets and tools. After all, with all of the digital wizardry we have access to now, the limit really is one's own imagination and creativity, and for that there is no substitute.


What I think is being lost is the concept that Apple, by not moving as fast as Adobe in converting to 64 bit, is being "lazy" or not doing due diligence. And Brian's point was that the pro industry values stability over cutting edge. And with that statement I find no fault. And it is true that vast majority of professionals in A/V do use Avid/Digidesign/Logic/ProTools and not Premiere/Soundbooth. It's also clear by some of the examples you provide that near-pro results can be obtained without pro equipment. I don't find yours and Brian's statements to be in conflict, just two different ways of looking at the same situation.


So when Adobe goes a bit cutting edge, they don't risk bringing a huge industry down. If Premiere CS5 is buggy, it's mostly prosumers and enthusiasts get pissed off, but life in Hollywood still goes on largely unchecked. If Pro Tools were to release something buggy, there would be major repercussion in the music industry. Same with Avid and the movie industry. That's the sea that Apple is swimming in, that's their competition with Logic and Final Cut.
 

Brian W. Ralston

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 4, 1999
Messages
605
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
Brian W. Ralston
Originally Posted by Sam Posten I can see your passion for the technology and the passion for the art one can create with that technology in your posts. What little I know of you from the HTF meets, I also know that you are knowledgable in these interestes. way more than most people are. I can assure you that I am not and no one is scoffing at "those with less experience, budget and skills" here. And believe me when I say that I have no fears about people "coming into my back yard" with these technologies. Whatever makes the craft better, that is a good thing.

But I would submit a couple things to you about the industry as a whole.

1. The entertainment industry is an industrial process geared for profit. It is an assembly line business driven by profits and nothing more. While some filmmakers might care enough about their art to push the bounds of the technology they use to tell their stories...for the studios and networks, no one cares about that. If it will make them more money, They will care. If it will save them more money (which a lot of these products do)...they will begin to care. But it is because of the bottom line. This is also why the technologies used have long established roots. For example, would you allow a $40 Million dollar film you were responsible for (or heck...a $200 Million dollar film) rely on the tech support of someone at Adobe with an off the shelf product? Combine that issue with the others I have spoken about in terms of stability and specific features and compatibilities needed for Post production houses...and one can begin to see why the industry uses what they use.

2. Breaking into the industry at any level has next to nothing to do with these technologies. I can assure you of that. Someone's reel might look great...but if he is not networked with the "right" people or if he is not seen by the studios and networks as "bankable", then no one will care how great his films look or what he shot it on. The barriers to entry to the industry are not connected to the technology used. That has more to do with who one knows. And those relationships take literally years and years (if not decades) to foster and create. I recently wrote an article about this..."10 lessons on breaking in" on the [url=http://www.scorecastonline.com]www.scorecastonline.com website. While it is targeted at younger composers trying to break in...notice that everything I discuss in that article has nothing to do with the technology a composer would use. I believe many of these lessons I have learned over the years are applicable to anyone in the industry.

http://www.scorecastonline.com/2010/04/brian-ralston-10-lessons-on-breaking-in.html


Cheers Sam!
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
Two great posts! I agree with Carlo we're saying roughly the same thing from vastly different vantage points =)


My original point stands tho: Steve Jobs specifically called Adobe out for being lazy in not converting their apps to 64 bit Cocoa. Adobe is now shipping more than twice as many 64 bit Pro apps than Apple is, and Apple shows no sign of fixing that any time soon.


Sam
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,385
Yeah Jobs probably shouldn't throw stones, glass houses and all.


But I believe what he could have fairly called them lazy for is that up until recently (and I don't know if this is still true of CS5 but it was as of CS3 and 4) is that Adobe didn't use the latest Apple tools and thus most people agreed that the CS programs ran better on PC than Mac (when historically it had been reversed, since a few of the programs in the suite originated as Mac programs).


Also, he could levy accusations of laziness not simply because they haven't programmed in 64-bit, since clearly not all of Apple's software is in 64-bit, but due to the fact that PC versions of CS had been 64-bit long before the Apple versions of the CS programs. He could have come at it from this perspective (and for all I know he was coming from this vantage point, I didn't read the original quote by Jobs in context).


EDIT: and just to show there's no hard feelings between me n El Jobs, I'm off to my local Apple Store to talk myself out of buying a new Macbook Pro! Just need to see it to know that I don't need it, that's all...honest...
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
He was specifically talking about Flash support on the mac at the time but yeah, what goes around comes around.


That new Macbook Pro will be a monster game machine on the 12th, no talking yourself out of it now!
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,385
Ugh, managed to walk out empty handed. The only thing keeping me from buying a new one is the fact that my 3 1/2 year old MBP is still running strong (maxed out the RAM, installed a 500GB 7200RPM HD), and when I look at the benchmarks on Barefeats, while the new MBPs absolutely blow away my MBP, they still lag significantly behind the iMac and Mac Pro in performance.


Since I use both Pro Tools and Logic (and will likely be buying one form of CS5) I think it's in my best interest to get a desktop machine. While I could be satisfied with the performance of an iMac, the lack of additional internal HDs really hurts that. For music creation they recommend using a separate HD, and I also want to set up mirror RAIDs for data backup, so those four drive bays in a Mac Pro are looking mighty enticing. I've finally decided to start saving up funds for the rumored six-core Mac Pro update this summer. Don't quite have the means to drop $3K on a MP and $2K on a MBP. One or the other.
Originally Posted by Sam Posten

He was specifically talking about Flash support on the mac at the time but yeah, what goes around comes around.


That new Macbook Pro will be a monster game machine on the 12th, no talking yourself out of it now!
 

Sam Posten

Moderator
Premium
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 30, 1997
Messages
33,674
Location
Aberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ
Real Name
Sam Posten
I hear ya. Sounds like the 27" LED Cinema Display may be in bound soon. I can't afford that no way, but this 20 is starting to really cry out for replacement =) Too many good new gear options, too little money =)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum statistics

Threads
356,813
Messages
5,123,616
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top