importance of timbre matching and CC170/270/370

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Eric_M, Jan 19, 2002.

  1. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

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    How important is timbre matching.

    When they say the CC 370 is timbre matched for the monitor lines the way the CC 170 is timbre matched for the performance series....how important is this?

    If I choose to have MOnitor 7's but have a 32 inch set, would the CC370 be a bit much or is it just a matter of turning down volume for the center.

    Likewise, if you have mini monitors all around, I would imagine the CC370 may be a bit much in which case a CC270 or CC 170 may be best.

    In the Paradigm brochure it states ALL speakers are timbre matched, so any combination might work.

    What does everyone think?
     
  2. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    You should always be able to calibrate the volume down on the center if you think it is "overkill" The CC-370 is timbre mathced with the monitor line, but I will tell you, like most horizontally placed center channel speakers, the different dispersion of sound will create a little different tone. If you pan test tones accross your front three speakers, you will usually hear something like shhhhh -> sheeeeee -> shhhhh. The only real way around this is identical front speakers. Now, it is important to note, that most people dont sit in their home theaters listening to test tones [​IMG] So, what you really need to do is take a DVD in to listen to the speakers. Find a scene where a car drives by accross the screen and see if the sound is realistic. I have a cc-350 with my paradigm monitor 7s up front, and while I can hear the pitch change with test tones, the sound is seamless with real world material.
     
  3. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Eric,

    I believe timbre matching is extremely important but as Charles noted it is difficult to do due to the nature of the center channels design. I think its maybe this fact that makes me like THX post processing. The THX post processing found on THX certified receivers works to timbre match the speakers. How it does it I don't know but I like the sound from my front three speakers better with the processing engaged.

    Personally in your situation I would go for the 370 since it does match the monitor 7's. I have a CC-350 but its ontop of my RPTV so there's no problem. A friend of mine has a CC-370 on top of a 32" Panasonic and it works fine.

    Patrick
     
  4. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    Eric,

    In our shop, I see it happen frequently where the client will get one of the lower model centre speakers to match with their Monitor series speakers due to budget, etc.

    In everycase though, they end up bringing it back to trade up for the proper one.

    Timbre matching is very important but I guess most people have to experience it to believe it.
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Timbre matching is extremely important, however I am using a CC170 with Minis and I have zero complaints. Yes, the 370 sounds better, but you would be surprised at how well the 170 sounds with the Minis. The front stage is quite seemless. In either case, I would have it set to small, so the frequency sent would be the same. I had been waiting for a 370 to come in, but I may just stick with the 170.

    Paradigm shows various pairings of their speakers, but they are not ALL timbre matched. Similar yes, but not identical. The Monitor and Performance lines pair well, without much issue, but when you move to the Reference line, you really should have Ref all the way around.
     
  6. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    The big difference as I understand it, is going to be the tweeter. You may be able to get by (and I think some manufacturers actually have setups this way) with a cc with smaller woofers (i.e. the mains have 6 1/2s while the CC has 5 1/4s) but you need identical tweeters. The monitor line has a 1" tweeter while the CC-170 has a 3/4" tweeter. I'm not sure what the cc-270 has.
     
  7. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks everyone so far...

    Just so I know for sure, timbre matching refers mainly to the size of the drivers/tweeters and crossover?

    How about dome types? The dome type on the 370 are ICP and PTD while the dome type on the 170 and 270 are CMC and MPC. I am not sure how important this actually is but just thought I'd throw that in there.

    Charles, the woofers on the 270 and 370 are 6 1/2's and the tweeters are both 1 inch. The 170 as you said are 5 1/2's and 3/4.

    The only other differences are the watts and crossover types according to the Paradigm brochure.

    amp pwr range

    cc170 15-160w

    cc270 15-160w

    cc370 15-175w

    and the max input power

    cc170 80w

    cc270 100w

    cc370 120w

    crossover

    cc170 2nd order electro acoustic at 2.5kHz

    cc270 2nd order electro acoustic at 2.1kHz

    cc370 3rd order electro acoustic at 2.0kHz

    if someone could explain what they mean by crossover 2nd order etc I'd appreciate it.

    Not sure how much the watts info matters though in terms of matching speakers. I am still deciding on the mini monitors or monitor 7's as fronts. It is such a tough choice as they both are great sounding speakers though I am leaning more so on 7's fronts, minis for rears.
     
  8. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    Holy crap man, your going to wear out my keyboard [​IMG] j/k its all good.
     
  9. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    All of this discussion points toward the reason I decided on identical speakers across the front...which means that the center channel had to be a small high quality bookshelf that wouldn't look dorky sitting on top of my television set. Here were my criteria:
    1) no more than 12" high
    2) high quality drivers
    3) shielded for video use
    4) able to put out decent volume down to 80hz
    5) matching dipole surrounds with same drivers.
    6) preferably sealed(rare nowadays) or
    front ported, but not a deal killer
    Narrowed it down to the ACI Emerald and the GR-Research Paradox 1 and AV1...all crossed over to the Velodyne Series II HGS-12.
    Result: absolutely seamless soundfield across the front.
     
  10. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    I agree with you in theory Randy, but I decided that larger towers were what I wanted, in order to provide a more seamless blend with a sub, and a monitor 7 sitting in front of my tv would tend to block the view [​IMG] Now, going FP, that would be an option. Another option is to EQ the CC to match the rest. This wont affect your dedicated 2 channel listening, and you'll get better voicing in movies and multi channel audio. This feature is built into some new receiver. My Yamaha RX-V 1200 has cc eq and a headphone equalizer.
     
  11. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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  12. Lowell_B

    Lowell_B Second Unit

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    I have Mini-monitor mains, with a CC-170, and it sounds great. I was originally going to go with Titans up front, but went with the Minis for music. The CC-370 would sound better, but you're not going to be killing your system by going with the 170.

    Lowell
     
  13. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

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    hey thanks everyone so far....

    Charles,

    Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense about the 270 perhaps being for the legends and phantoms.

    I am sort of on a budget but i also went this far so spending a little more won't kill me I suppose. Besides I think of this as a long term investment. The difference from minis to 7's is about 250. It seems like a lot but it comes down whether I will always be wishing I got the 7's instead. They both sound great. The 7's have the advantage since they are towers and seem to fill a room a bit better. I know I am getting minis for rears for sure though. Even with the center, i am going to end up spending more and going for the 370. I am sure the 170 and 270 will be good for the minis or even 7s but in the long run i may be better off with the 370.

    As far as the sub. No, I haven't decided. I was going to either go with a PS100 or a PDR 12 or 12. On another thread I was told that bandpass which the PS series are is not the best for music so I was leaning more towards the PDR series. They both sound nice truthfully. I then heard about the Rava but then some say it is better for music than HT. My hours will be spent about %60 music %40 HT.

    I am going to look into the HSU subs and the Velodynes.

    I don't need a monster sub due to my living space and I don't like to drown anything in bass , but anyway I do have to look into those. Ugh it's no fun being so indecisive on things!
     

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