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I'm going NUTS!!!! (1 Viewer)

FrankL

Grip
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
17
I think I am suffering from information overload. If I go on one web site, its all Mitsubishi, every thing else
( except Pioneer) falls well below that in quality and features. Then I go to another site and its all Hitachi or Toshiba and Mitsubishi sucks. I have a Mitsubishi 65311 on order for the basement.I still have about two weeks to change my mind. I will probably be watching regular analog cable the most along with DVDs. ( I have the Panisonic rp82 progressive scan). I got a great deal on the TV ($2400) however I'm sure I could also get a great price on Toshiba or Hitachi since the sales manager is a close friend. ( by the way, He sells them all except Pioneer and he says to go with the Mitsubishi)I probably wont get the TV calibrated because of the cost.
I know alot of you pros don't like to answer posts like this but I could really use some help here. Am I making a mistake with the Mits? I've heard that regular cable looks like @#$% on these. Oh, I'm sitting about 11 feet away
Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Frank
 

Juan_R

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 4, 2001
Messages
683
The Toshiba or the Hitachi will do a better job with anolog signals than the Mits. The Mits might be better in DVD quality though, and you are going to have to get rid of the red push on the Mits. Good luck on what ever you decide.
 

Chris Shelly

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Messages
274
yeah I hear you,

I just ordered a Toshiba 57HDX82 to be delivered tomorrow. At first all I could find is how wonderful this TV is. Now after I bought it all I find is how horrible it is. I am taking it with a grain of salt. I think they are all better then anything from a few years ago and that people are just being very picky. I also think different sites are tend to have members who favor certain brands. Bottom line is they are all pretty good now days.

Chris
 

Jack Briggs

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 3, 1999
Messages
16,805
Once calibrated—and I mean a genuine service-menu calibration—all these sets will perform nicely. So, if you're going to be spending this much on an RPTV, you really should consider an ISF-level calibration. I mean, it's an investment. You want that TV to perform to the best of its abilities, don't you?
 

jeff lam

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
1,798
Location
San Jose, CA
Real Name
Jeff Lam
Don't pass up the ISF callibration. If you can't spare for it, get a cheaper set and an ISF callibration. It will look better than a uncallibrated Mitsubishi or even pioneer elite. A Pannasonic 53WX42 is only about $1600 or so now and I'm sure you can get it for much less if your friend sels it. Add $500 for an ISF and you have a better picture than the Mitsubishi for much less $$$.

From what I have heard, nearly all the main brands look very close when fully callibrated. It's just out of the box that it varries so much between quality. Ask some of the ISF guys around here if they look that much different when fully callibrated. They have seen it all and can give you better info.
 

Chris Shelly

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Messages
274
I have thought about having this done after my set is broken in. How much do they charge for an ISF calibration?

Chris
 

jeff lam

Screenwriter
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San Jose, CA
Real Name
Jeff Lam
Depends on what you want done and who does it. Budget at least $400 for RPTV's, they can go as high as $700 or more. Anything leftover can buy you some DVD's to enjoy.
 

FrankL

Grip
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
17
Thanks for the input. Will a calibration make regular analog cable look good? Or is that a product of garbage in garbage out. Does anyone know of an ISF calibrator in the Detroit area?
 

elMalloc

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 26, 2001
Messages
787
Real Name
Reuben
Tell me why the sets can't come with a manual to ISF calibrate? Do they have to open up the set to calibrate it corretly? How come sets don't come much better calibrated out of the box?
Not to fire all the ISF guys, but $400-800 is a chunk of change that I'm sure some people would be willing to pay at the time of their TV set if it was calibrated much better so it wouldn't need an ISF.
-ELmO:angry:
 

Ric Easton

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
2,830
I hear you. When I finally make the purchase, the wife is not gonna want to hear... "OK, honey, now I gotta pay a guy to come over and 'fix' it... Should only be another 500.00 or so..."

Ric
 

greg_t

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Messages
1,654
Well, consider that VCR's come with owners manuals and most people can't program them. I don't think it would be a good idea to have people messing around in their 1500+ dollar RPTV's. No one says you have to get an ISF, but you will if you want to get the most out of it.
 

Jack Briggs

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 3, 1999
Messages
16,805
Until such as the OEMs begin providing well-made sets that offer at least one viewing mode where they are putting out a genuine D6,500-true picture as well as having all the other crucial performance areas set correctly (convergence, focus, overscan, etc.), then there will be a need for professional calibrationists.

It's the way things are. And the more expensive the set ...
 

BruceSpielbauer

Second Unit
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
275
All of the sets you mentioned are great sets, once calibrated by a good ISF pro.

All of the sets you mentioned have their strengths, and all have their weaknesses. Some of those strengths may especially appeal to YOU. Some of those weaknesses may be so critical that they become a deal-killer -- for YOU.

The trick is to narrow it to those sets which have many strengths, and very few weaknesses. I believe you have done that part.

Next, the trick is find the set which has those strengths which are especially important to you, and yet also has very few of the weaknesses which matter a lot to you.

IF you have the set professionally calibrated, and the calibrator knows his stuff, any of these sets will look terrific.

Some of those listed have better stretch modes (but even that becomes subjective... I like the stretch mode on my Mits, while I have seen others trash it. And yes, I considered the Toshiba). Some of the sets have red push (actually a lot of them do). Mine had a lot -- but I found that out, and also found out that it could be defeated. Some of the sets do an upconversion auomatically with DVDs, to view a 480 signal in 520. Some people like that. Some people hate it. Some of the sets listed have better line doublers. Some have had issues with ghosting, some with lousy built-in audio, some with poor quality control. Some have cabinets which I consider horrible, while you consider them a thing of beauty. Some look horrible out of the box, and great a month later. Some look great out of the box, but horrible once you turn down the contrast.

Some sets have global settings, while others allow you to tweak for every separate component and input device. Some have better remotes. Some have better sound. To one person, these issues may be important. To another, those built-in speakers may never get used, so who cares?

Bottom line: There is no best set. There is only a best set for you.

And, again, if you budget $400 to $700 for an ISF calibration, and hire this pro carefully, ANY of the sets you listed will look good. And, any of them will look very, very close to any of the others if they have also been calibrated (which will be a definite improvement over any of the sets non-calibrated).

-Bruce in Chi-Town
 

Jeff Kleist

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 4, 1999
Messages
11,266
Tell me why the sets can't come with a manual to ISF calibrate? Do they have to open up the set to calibrate it corretly? How come sets don't come much better calibrated out of the box?
Well, here's one good reason, contents shift in transit. the general bumps that any product will take when being shipped are enough to knock out any pre-calibration. Also manufactuers ship their sets to look good in the showroom (also known as "torch mode" round these parts) settings which will damage the set sooner rather than later.
An ISF tech opens up your set and think of him like a NASCAR mechanic. He gets in there and yanks every ounce of horsepower out of that engine and leaves you with a picture to die for ;)
 

Bill Slack

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 16, 1999
Messages
837
Sets don't look that good out of the box because of cost. Most people don't get their sets calibrated, so why would a company spend money doing it; most consumers don't even notice! To make them look that good out-of-box would cost a ton of money and see little ROI.

Pioneer Elites look much better oob than most other sets. So do Runcos. And they also cost a truckload more than other sets. There are certainly have other bonues as well, but I assure you, it's cheaper in the long run that way it is.

For DVD/HD sources with the right player, and calibrated, for the price, Mits is the one to go with imo. The 540p conversion and removal of the design menu (though the ADDR menu can do everythig, anyway) bothers me on the new Toshibas.

Almost any HD-ready set you can buy is a pretty nice TV though.

I own a Toshiba, myself. The lack of zooming on progressive scan was a serious issue to me, 2.5 yrs ago.
 

MichaelFusick

Second Unit
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Messages
301
Tell me why the sets can't come with a manual to ISF calibrate? Do they have to open up the set to calibrate it corretly? How come sets don't come much better calibrated out of the box?
You sound like me a year ago...:D
I used to wonder the same things.
Shipping and handleing will take it's toll on and RPTV, which uses some delicate things like optics and mirrors to reproduce the images you see. Focus, geometry and Convergence are rarely 100% on any RPTV out of the box. Most people can't tell, and thats good. I have never really read where someone was disapointed with ISF calibration either... Most people concur it is worth the money.
That's just the easy stuff...
There is also circuitry to deal with like Edge enhancment disablement, some sets like Panny require the tech to even cut wires I think. SVM is no good, and some sets require service level adjusments to correct for this, other sets do not.
ALso color decoder... Except for Toshiba which has a locked color decoder, Most other RPTV's can be adjusted to deal with red push, green pull, blue push/pull ect....
Also, the biggest is greyscale. Setting your TV greyscale to D6500K ensure you get correct and accurate colors. This requires a technician or expert with expensive equiptment and a trained eye to do this correctly...
There is alot to ISF calibration if you get a real expert to do it...And I think they are worth the $ they charge and certainly earn it.
Here is a good article:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hot...?ArticleID=124
 

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