Bob Segno
Agent
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2000
- Messages
- 46
Thanks for the tip on acousticsounds, Rachael. I've also had good luck on E-bay,especially sealed albums.
In your mind, but you pass it off as fact. By the same token, the LP is an analog format, while the CD is a digital approximation. Should CD sound better than the LP? One should not make that assumption. You are making an assumption, but you pass it off as fact and insult people in the process.
It is a fact and something that easily measureable. It has been measured and has been proven less accurate than the digital CD.
I cite as a point of authorities, from Ethan Winer:
Myth: Digital audio sounds worse than analog, and the lack of digital's fidelity is revealed as a sterile and harsh sound that lacks warmth, depth, imaging, clarity, and any number of other vague and elusive descriptions.
Fact: Analog tape compresses dynamics and adds distortion, which can be a pleasing effect for many people (including me). But for pure faithfulness to the original signal, modern pro-quality digital wins hands down every time. It is true that when digital audio is recorded at too low a level, the result can sound grainy. This distortion is in addition to the hiss that an analog recording also has, and it is caused by using an insufficient number of bits. That is, recording at too low a level on a 16-bit system is similar to recording at a normal level on an 8-bit system.
Vintage analog synthesizers may sound "warmer" than current digital models, but only because of the distortion inherent in their design. That wonderful fatness is the result of pushing the analog VCF and VCA circuits to their limits, in an effort to obtain a usable signal to noise ratio. But there is no reason a modern sampling synth cannot reproduce, if not generate, those same sounds exactly if given a proper source signal.
Ethan Winer is: Ethan Winer has been a professional musician, composer, audio engineer, recording instructor, computer programmer, and consultant since the 1960s. He was a writer and contributing editor for PC Magazine for many years, and has written feature articles for Electronic Musician, Recording, and R-e/p magazine. Ethan now writes mostly classical music, and plays the cello in the Danbury (Connecticut) Symphony Orchestra.
As you can see, its not me insulting someone, other folks in the field of audio agree with me.
So, again I'll say, go buy a turntable and some used vinyl and have some FUN!
well said.
Ethan Winer is: Ethan Winer has been a professional musician, composer, audio engineer, recording instructor, computer programmer, and consultant since the 1960s. He was a writer and contributing editor for PC Magazine for many years, and has written feature articles for Electronic Musician, Recording, and R-e/p magazine. Ethan now writes mostly classical music, and plays the cello in the Danbury (Connecticut) Symphony Orchestra.
OK, Jaleel, just for the heckuvit, let's try this:
Bob Lindstrom (me) is: Bob Lindstrom has been a professional musician, composer and conductor since the 1970s. He has received grants in music study from the Ford Foundation, National Endowment for the Arts and the Finnish government. As a journalist, he was a professional classical music and dance critic for 10 years; Editor-in-Chief of Ziff Davis' A+ and Computer Shopper Magazines; the first recipient of the Best Software Reviewer Award from the Software Publishers' Association; and a monthly columnist for OMNI. His articles have appeared in BYTE Magazine, Electronic Musician and many other publications. As a producer and designer of computer software, three of his products have earned a place in Computer Gaming World's Hall of Fame.
Now, then, with my credentials behind us, let me state that I disagree with Mr. Winer.
So what? Who cares?
My opinion is no more measurement or proof of the superiority of analog or digital technology than Mr. Winer's is. They are opinions. Educated opinions, perhaps. But just opinions.
Let's get off the high horse and recognize that every sound recording technology is a reasonable facsimile of live performance at best and that digital and analog techniques of sound reproduction (or, in the case of synths, "production") have their own benefits and liabilities.
Why is that so difficult for some folks to understand? And why is it even worth arguing about?
My opinion is no more measurement or proof of the superiority of analog or digital technology than Mr. Winer's is. They are opinions. Educated opinions, perhaps. But just opinions.
Let's get off the high horse and recognize that every sound recording technology is a reasonable facsimile of live performance at best and that digital and analog techniques of sound reproduction (or, in the case of synths, "production") have their own benefits and liabilities.
Why is that so difficult for some folks to understand? And why is it even worth arguing about?
Thank you.
Discussions of the superiority of formats goes on all the time, not only here, but on other sites like www.audioasylum.com and www.stevehoffman.tv, and the "opinions" many express tend to show their shortsightedness. I wish more people had an open mind, and could except things for what they are - but that just doesn't always seem to be the case.
I see benefit and detriments in all formats - and I own a Turntable, SACD player, DVD-Audio player, redbook CD player, etc. I find something to like in all of them.
We should be grateful that we all have freedom of choice - and that so many formats can seem to co-exist together.
The Rice Krispies comment was directed to the snap crackle pop noises they generate while playing
Yeah I had caught that. It's an unavoidable problem, but can be minized. My record collection doesn't hardly ever pop or snap. Some used discs do, and some on porr vinyl, but on the whole, mine are very clean. I still use an old Zerostat gun on my records and I've come to the conclusion that static electricity is to blame for at least one fourth of the snapping and popping noises on the average (for me - which is immaculate for some) untreated LP.
I've never thought one format was better than the other but always acknowledged there was a difference.
I agree. The only aspect which I still think is clearly superior is that CD is a much better DELIVERY MEDIUM than LP. It's less prone to damage, wear is virtually non-existant, and the playback devices are much less sensitive. (Turntables have wow and flutter to deal with, as well as inner groove distortion, anti-skating, etc.)
I think the superiority of the CD as a delivery medium is what REALLY accounts for people's preference (sometimes FIERCE preference) for digital technology.
An intriguing thing to consider is what might have happened to analog technology if digital hadn't supplanted it. We'd probably have a delivery medium as convenient and damage-proof as CD with a much wider dynamic range than LP afforded. A tantalizing prospect. Remember, LaserDisc was analog audio matched to an optical delivery medium, until the addition of AC3 near the twilight of LaserDisc's commercial lifespan.
One of the local used record stores that I frequent gets some new records. I think they are for lack of a better term gray market items. I think they are made for export to places where CD hasn't exactly caught on yet. I could be wrong about this? I do know that alot of music gets put on record in very limited quantity however. You should call any and all used record stores near you and ask
Well, those records are NOT any grey market items. There are STILL a demand from buyers and the artist that the album is released on vinyl. Why do you think? Well, because there ARE people still felling vinyl is better than CD.
And WHY sould an artist like Bob Dylan, Beck, REM, etc etc record their music on analog tapes and want them to be released on vinyl if CD and digital is better? Can ANYONE say that the artist don't know what they are talking about?
There are still much more new vinyls sold than SACD, many great 180 g reissues of older albums, more and more new turntables/arms/pick-up's/RIAA'S, more people getting into the vinyl market. There are MANY online stores that ONLY sell new vinyl.
And the sound has been VERY much improved on all aspects on turntable/arm/pick-up/RIAA over the 10-15 years so if you don't have heard any good new table you all should.
BTW, beware of the BAD RIAA/phono stage that are in most amplifiers today. No money at all has been put into that so do buy a separate RIAA, there are MANY on the market.
Well, the noise floor on my VPI HW-19 MK4 is low and there are many much better player than mine.
Fact: Analog tape compresses dynamics and adds distortion, which can be a pleasing effect for many people (including me). But for pure faithfulness to the original signal, modern pro-quality digital wins hands down every time. It is true that when digital audio is recorded at too low a level, the result can sound grainy. This distortion is in addition to the hiss that an analog recording also has, and it is caused by using an insufficient number of bits. That is, recording at too low a level on a 16-bit system is similar to recording at a normal level on an 8-bit system.
I would say that is a myth in some ways. Fact if you're dealing with cassettes that run at a sluggish 1 7/8 inches per second. But I own a 30 year old Sony TC 377 Reel to Reel deck that goes 7 1/2 inches per second and a frequency response of 20 - 20,000 HZ. That's the range of most human hearing. I also lug that thing and a couple of Shure SM 57s microphones and record the music performances at the school and the sound comes out very good. I mean GOOD. I keep an eye on the VU meters and make sure they don't hit the red mark. The quality of Reel to Reel is very good. Actually better than CD, IMO. I recorded a CD to the R2R deck and the quality didn't change a bit. I have to admit, I do record it to the computer, edit, then burn it to CD since CD sounds better than cassette and editing is easier on the computer rather than splicing tape.
Vinyl, on the other hand, damages quickly, can't be played in a car, requires pretty good equipment to sound good and gets dirty.
If you don't take the time to set your TT up properly, yes , vinyl damages quickly.
Can't be played in a car(CD's ARE more convenient, no argument)
Requires pretty good equipment to sound good(Dollar for Dollar I'll put my TT/phono stage/preamp up against any digital combo of the same $ amount)I sold my $3k CD player(Cary CD303) a year ago because my Vinyl rig sounded better.
Gets dirty(If you leave your records on the floor and out of their sleeves, I agree, they will get dirty. What is so hard about putting the record back in its sleeve?
Some of the prices may make you appreciate CD
To which I will add, "But the sound will quickly make you wonder why you spent so much on your CD collection."
Happy listening to all.
Larry
P.S. to Bob-L: My sincerest compliments on your post.