If I build it will they come? Tempest 214L - Now Finished!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett Loomis, Oct 14, 2002.

  1. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok , I think I am almost ready to kick off this project. I just want to confirm a few things.

    Are the following all the correct dimensions/cut sizes I need to build the 214L Adire alignment?

    Top & Bottom = 22" x 22"
    2 sides = 22" x 32"
    2 sides = 20 1/2" x 32"
    Brace A = 32" x 9 7/8 with notch cutout at 2 5/8" and 24 3/4" (2 pieces)
    Brace B = 20 1/2" x 32" with notch cutout at 5 1/8" and 24 3/4" ( 1 piece)

    How accurate do my cuts have to be?
    Any suggestions when cutting these pieces?
    Can anyone send me some links or detailed instructions on the order and process of assembly/gluing/caulking/screwing of these pieces?
    Best amp for this sub?
    What type of screws and length for best results?

    I appreciate any and all pitfalls I should avoid.

    Thanks, Brett
     
  2. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    The biggest pitfall to avoid: screws. Plain and simple. They're a PITA. I'd rather see you glue and clamp each panel individually. It'll take longer, but the end result is well worth the wait. I've never had good luck with screws and MDF. You have to predrill your holes and even then they tend to split the MDF.

    JUST SAY NO!

    Brian
     
  3. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I totally agree, Brian. I used to do all screws and they are a pain in the ass.. I now glue/screw and it is the only way to go.

    Craig
     
  4. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    I built the same sub last spring. I love it!

    Dont use screws. I almost did that myself. :b
     
  5. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

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    Screws and MDF don't mix well. Like the others said, no screws, if you want use a brad nailer to hold the pannels as you clamp them up. Just don't put the brads anywhere near the ends of the MDF or it will split.

    Your cuts will need to be VERY accurate, you can get away with some less than perfect cuts with caulk but ideally you shouldn't need the caulk. The joints should be accurate enough to be air tight after gluing and clamping. This will also ensure there will be no failures of the joint later on.

    Best amp? I'm sure there are plenty better but the AVA 250 watt amp or the PE 250 watt plate amp are more than adequate for that alignment. I used it and can't even turn it up 1/3 or it blows you out of the room.

    Darren
     
  6. PaulDF

    PaulDF Second Unit

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    Okay, I just finished my enclosure. I used about 140 screws. Predrilled and countersunk. Also glued the screws and joints and I had no problems with splitting. Please don't tell me by box is gonna crumble as soon as I crank it up!
     
  7. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Paul, you will be just fine using the screws if you didnt have any splitting. Since you predrilled and countersunk then I'm sure you didnt split any of the wood so just crank it up and enjoy!
     
  8. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

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    Yeah Paul, no prob. The trick to using screws with MDF is pre-drilling at a larger diameter than normal and being sure to pre-drill for the entire depth of the screw. MDF is pressed and therefore has a lateral "grain" which is prone to split with any kind of "wedge" force. It appears that you did it properly so you should be good to go.

    Darren
     
  9. PaulDF

    PaulDF Second Unit

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    Thanks guys, thats EXACTLY what I wanted to hear!! Tonight I fire her up... 360L Tempest tuned to 16 hz. Hope all goes well. And Brett, good luck!
     
  10. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    OK great feedback guys....I will plan on /pre-drilling countersinking if I go this route.
    Ok for gluing and clamping I still need help. I have never built this sub so is there many questions I have on the order of assembly and how I should clamp, what type of glue/caulk. Anyone have any links or photos that can walk me through the assembly steps??
    PaulDF ---Patterns for screws if you used screws, What length? Good luck and let us know how it sounds!!
    Does my cut size list look OK for the 214L Adire Alignment?
    Could I have my local lumber yard cut all these sizes for me and ask them to match/cut mating sides up as close as possible. My local HD says "No exact cuts" so I worry about their accuracy when I go to assemble. If I cut it all my self should I use a table saw for the straight cuts? How about all the holes? I have a router but no circle jig.
    Advice here please!! Thanks, Brett
    [email protected]
     
  11. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    I have several photo galleries of my two 214L tempests and floorstanding speakers.
    HERE
    Almost every single piece of furntire I've worked with uses MDF and screws, the rest usually uses yellow glue and brads where strength really isn't an issue. I don't think you guys are doing something right if it's splitting.
    A word of advice is to NEVER put a screw closer than 2 inches from the end of the edge or splitting will occur. Always pre-drill, and try wax or a soap bar on the screw to make it screw in easier. Also, insert all brads so they are horizontal with the panel to prevent splitting, and when applying yellow glue, spread it with your finger evenly across the edge of the panel to be glued.
    The holes can be done carefully with a jigsaw as accuracy doesn't need to be precise. I highly recommend you do the cutting yourself as the HD employees don't cut with accuracy even if you tell them.
    "Some" cuts don't necessarily have to be exact since you can use an orbital sander to clean the top edges at the end.
    I suggest you setup the table saw to make a specific type of cut, say 22", then make ALL the 22" cuts at once so you don't have to reset the tablesaw and risk losing accuracy.
    Simple steps:
    1. Make all the cuts first, cut driver/port holes into the panels in correct locations.
    2. Line up the panels and make sure everything fits, make adjustments if necessary.
    3. Glue and screw the side panels and braces together first. After that has dried, sand down the top and bottom so it will be flush with the top and bottom panels and install those last. (Maybe stuff the box before putting the top bottom panels in). If needed, use a rubber mallet to knock panels in place before the glue has dried.
    4. Install components last (Don't know if you plan on mounting an amp in it or not)
    As for filling up the screws holes, I use automotive "bondo" that works great. If you really want to get fancy like what I did on my amp box is you can buy a bit that makes "plugs" and drill out some plugs from an exotic hardwood. I made some "black" ebony plugs and then glued them in the maple laminated screw holes. Afterwords use a chisel and/or sand the plug flush and you're done.
    For installing feet, you can use a "dowel" or "rod" like biscuit and put sockets in the bottom panel and hardwood leg. With some epoxy the feet will be permanently bonded to the MDF, It'll be so strong that the MDF will break before the bond does.
    Good luck, and remember don't rush it.
     
  12. Jeff Rosz

    Jeff Rosz Second Unit

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    my 2 tips on mdf

    wear a dust mask

    NEVER assume the mdf you bought is square
     
  13. PaulDF

    PaulDF Second Unit

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    Brett, I used 2 inch screws. 3 inches apart for the sides. To screw into the brace I made sure the screws went into the brace between the big holes. About 7 3/4 inches. Depends on how far apart your brace holes are... Predrill 2 inches deep and stay 4 or 5 inches away from the ends. Its not hard to cut your own panels, I clamped down a homemade fence and sawed along beside it. It worked really well. And if theres an edge sticking over, just router it off, real easy. I'm no carpenter but I'm quite proud of what I've done. Just remember to measure twice, and cut once!
     
  14. Jack*Mains

    Jack*Mains Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry to leech off your post, but I have a sort of related question.

    If I were to mount an Adire Adire AVA250 plate amp inside teh sub box and using some of the ported designs off the Adire website for a Shiva, would I have to make the box bigger to make up for the room the plate amp will take up? Or is it not very significant?

    Thanks.
     
  15. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Jack,
    Any difference in tuning will be miniscule (along the lines of a fraction of a Hz) so just build it per the plans and cut a hole for the amp! [​IMG]
    Brian
     
  16. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    AAARGH!! I am losing confidence fast based on the mitred edges, clamps, circle jigs, templates and quite simply my lack of tools to make all these cuts accurately.

    Any sub-builders for hire in the Midwest/Metro-Detroit area?

    Could any good carpenter take these plans and build to the Adire 214L blueprint?

    I own the following tools:

    7 1/4" circular saw
    Ryobi router
    Craftsman 14.6 Cordless drill/screwdriver
    DeWalt power drill
    various drill bits
    two folding saw horses

    No experience with mitred edges, clamping or cutting all the circles or building any furniture. I need help!!!!

    Any suggestions?
     
  17. PaulDF

    PaulDF Second Unit

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    Dude! You've got the tools. I did it! And I had to borrow a lot of the tools. Just take your time and think it through. My box doesnt even rattle! I'm quite proud of myself, you'll be too.
     
  18. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    Why are you using mitered joints?! Regular butt joints are just fine. We've done some cabinets with mitered joints before and they're a PITA for the most part.

    Brian
     
  19. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    (oops, spelled furniture wrong last :b )

    I don't think you should use router to build this project. I also don't think you should miter anything either. What I'm dying to know is how you attempted to use a clamp and mitered edges to build the box.

    The only times I would use mitered joints is if I was working with laminates. (or if I already had the lock miter bit setup and the templates handy)

    It's kind of hard to explain how to build a cabinet. I think the easiest and fastest way to build one is to make circles with a jigsaw and hole saw, and assemble with glue and brads (from a nail gun). But since you don't have a jigsaw or nail gun I guess you'll have to just use the router + jig to make the circles, and use clamps, glue, and screws to assembled it. (No miter btw)

    Plug the screws with bondo or a wood filler, sand it and then put a veneer, primer, and/or paint etc..
     
  20. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    PaulDF, Brian, Chris----I don't want to use any mitered pieces or my router if I don't have to.....The only reason I was even considering was that many here have suggested it.

    I can cut (or get cut) all the MDF to the 214L spec sizes. And, I know how to pre-drill and countersink using MDF. I can get access to a brad nailer and compressor if needed but can I just rely on glue and screws?

    Do I need clamps if I use glue and screws? If yes, how many clamps?

    Can I build entire box then do amp cutout/terminal plate after? Or should I cut that out before assembling?

    Thanks guys!
     

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