If Axioms are "Bright" - where should I turn next?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bryan_Tams, Mar 6, 2003.

  1. Bryan_Tams

    Bryan_Tams Agent

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    I am on the final days of auditioning the Axiom M60tis and associated surround package and I still feel they may be a bit bright or forward for my room....although I am not having any ear fatigue the last couple of days...either the speakers or my ears broke in. Anyway, if I still feel this way after the weekend, where should I turn next? I am thinking of looking at PSB Image series (5Ts) or B&W 600 series but was wondering what other companies are known for a warmer speaker in the price range...$800pr? Thanks.
     
  2. Rick CH

    Rick CH Agent

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    Check out the Energy C5 speakers
     
  3. JoeyTadeja

    JoeyTadeja Agent

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  4. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Also Atlantic Technology 350 series package is warmer (this is from a previous owner, who is a current Axiom owner). One Call is their internet marketer.

    Ron

    PS: I thought Axioms were fairly bright, but after the break in period and getting my "ear" used to a different sound, I wouldn't turn back. The amp can also make a difference. I went from a Denon receiver to marantz MA-700 monoblocks. This created a warmer sound w/ the monoblocks.
     
  5. MarkWC

    MarkWC Stunt Coordinator

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    I have heard about consumers implementing resistors lowering the efficiency and 'brightness' on the titanium tweeters. It goes against the grain of having a highly efficient upper octave, but nonetheless, may reduce the 'brightness' and lessen possible ear fatigue. Axiom will send them to you if you email Alan Loft with your concern.

    I am considering the M50s which are a little more reserved and less forward in the upper end.

    They are still one hell of a deal! What was you feelings on the VP150 and QS8 (logically combonation for the M60s)?
     
  6. Bryan_Tams

    Bryan_Tams Agent

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    MarkWC

    I did e-mail Alan he he suggested room placement and accents before he would recommend the resistor. Besides, I do like the sound and I not sure what I think about spending this much on a speaker and then needing to remove the tweeter and mess with it. As far as the other speakers, I love the QS8s - I may keep them regardless. The VP150, I think I had greater expectations based on reviews, but I don't have any complaints. As you can imagine, I am having a blast and frustrating my wife to death during this process.
     
  7. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Make sure you give them aple break-in time before you decide to get rid of them ....

    That said, try the Rockets if you still don't fancy the Axioms ...
     
  8. Gene HS

    Gene HS Auditioning

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    Try Polks, the LSi series if you can swing it. They are a warmer speaker. goodsound.com has reviews of Axiom, Polk RT, Polk Lsi speakers.
     
  9. MarkWC

    MarkWC Stunt Coordinator

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    Bryan,

    I wouldn't be able to change my layout and am not sure if you can manuerve this. However, you may want to consider seeing if they will let you extend your trial period with the addition of the resistors. I know it is not an ideal option, it depends on how much you admire your speakers.

    What is the let down with the VP150? I heard it is the weakest link, but much better the the lesser models.

    I have also heard the PSB Image series and find them to be warmer. They are also great if you need the front speakers to be slim because they are not much wider than the components they use, a plus for many people with space contraints.

    Do you find the sound metallic sounding?
     
  10. Torgny Nilsson

    Torgny Nilsson Second Unit

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    I have heard some people say that they prefer the GR Research AV-1+ or the EFE T-22 to the Axiom speakers. I have not heard either of them, as they are also internet companies, so I can't advise you on how they compare, but they are in the same price range and I have never heard anyone say anything negative about either of them. You may want to run a search for them on the various audio sites and read about them for yourself.
     
  11. Jeffrey R

    Jeffrey R Stunt Coordinator

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    I can speak some to the use of the resistors with the Axioms. I want to be clear that I did not really feel that I needed to use the resistors, but I figured I would try them out anyway. I live in a NYC apartment, which is clearly not acoustically ideal. I have been using the Axiom M22 bookshelves for several months, and have been incredibly happy with their performance, both with music and home theater. On some of my lesser quality recordings, I would turn the treble down on my receiver a bit, but all in all, I found the M22's neither fatiguing nor bright on an everyday basis. Nonetheless, I figured I'd try out the resistors, since it seemed easy enough to try them out. It turned out to be very easy to install the resistors, and I'm no techie.

    Bottom line, the resistors do what they are supposed to do, which is reduce the output of the tweeter. No more, no less. By using the resistors, I have now been able to push the treble up on the receiver a bit higher, so I have been able to maintain the crisp highs. I haven't definitively decided which way I prefer yet, but I have left the resistors in for a couple of weeks now, and will likely keep them in. Obviously, I do notice a bit of a decrease in detail, but the detail is still probably better than many speakers are normally. The resistors basically take away a bit of the harshness from the tweeter, while retaining the stellar mids, and I think it is a good little fix for what some may consider brightness.
     
  12. Phil_Lunar

    Phil_Lunar Stunt Coordinator

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    How much time have you played them?


     
  13. Mike_Gr

    Mike_Gr Stunt Coordinator

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    I found Axiom to be a little on the harsh/bright side at first. An friend of mine that is very experienced with HT etc. suggested an amp change. I was using a Nakamichi and switched to a Parasound........which made a big difference. The brightness went out the window. After that, as more time passed, the M60s began to sound even better. I am very glad I stuck with them as I have gone back and listened to some of the other speakers I orginally considered.......and the M60s were definately the correct choice. Good luck!
     
  14. Mike_Gr

    Mike_Gr Stunt Coordinator

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    I am curious as to what you are powering your Axioms with?
     
  15. BrianJ>Y

    BrianJ>Y Stunt Coordinator

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    Axiom speakers are definitely very neutral. So the brightness can come from the amp, source material, placement, and a lively room. I would try to remedy any of these first if you can before turning to other speakers, some room treatments will make the biggest difference(more carpeting, kill those first and second order reflections).

    I own the m22's,vp150,and qs8's...love them all to death. The 150 is the weak link though, because it's not as neutral as the 22's, seems a bit too heavy on the midrange. It's a trade off since the 150 can handle a lot more power and not sound as compressed at very high volumes, but the 22 or m2 as a center seems more neutral and less "trapped inside the box" sounding.

    -Brian
     
  16. Mark Leitch

    Mark Leitch Stunt Coordinator

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    I own Axiom's (they are very cheap in Canada). My comments:

    o the tweeter definitely has the metal dome quality. I debate trying these some time: http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_124146_1590crx.aspx

    o I think the QS8s are incredible. They are the hardest thing to replace when upgrading from Axiom IMHO.

    o I agree the center is the weak link. I have dialed it in on my Lexicon and it helps... though I debate possibly running dual centers.

    M.
     
  17. MarkWC

    MarkWC Stunt Coordinator

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    Many people on the Axiom website and others on forums like this have found better results when replacing the VP150 with a M2 reverting from bigger being better.

    I have always assumed, shame on me, than the addition of a tweeter and the blatanty size would enhance more clarity in the dialogue and a better off axis response but as stated above, many people have called the center 'muddy' and a weak point.

    Has anyone ever experimented with the M2?

    It would be nice to add the VP150 as a back center channel if the M2 worked out especially since it could be laid face up behind the listening position eliminating it from plain view. You could also put a stand behind there if it was against the wall.

    Were the Qs8's hard to place, either side wall of rear wall? I heard they are really as good as the hype!
     
  18. Bryan_Tams

    Bryan_Tams Agent

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    Everyone, thank you for all your comments.

    I am powering my M60s with a H/K 525. As far as listening time, it is probably not as much as I should. I left them running for a couple of work days and have been playing music or movies most evenings for a hour or so. Since last weekend, following playing RUSH very loud, I have not noticed any ear fatigue when listening, but still think they can break-in more.

    Tonight they are going head-to-head against the Paradigm Monitor 11s at a friends house. And they will go head-to-head against either the Energy C5 or Mirage OM-10 (close out deal - $799)on Saturday from a local dealer.

    I will let everyone know what I thought.
     
  19. Dan Mastro

    Dan Mastro Agent

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    i have owned the axiom epic 60 system for about 3 months now, replacing an antique system. initially the wife and i were not overly inpressed with the system until we did two things.
    1. hook up the sub
    2. listen for about a month
    now, neither of us would give up the system. its powered through a yammi rxv1300, in a room 22x16 with cathedral ceilings. sounds great loud or soft. naturally now after messing around with settings on the receiver we listen to cable tv on 6 chanel stereo.
    the new josh groban live cd and dvd sounds outstanding, and i'm not a real fan of his now, but probably will become one.
    dan
     
  20. PatrickS

    PatrickS Stunt Coordinator

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    I had the M60's, VP150, and QS8's (I still have those). I intially loved thier accurate "bright" sound. I had them for 5 months, and after awhile I found that when playing ALOT of my cd's the highs hurt my ears. I tried everything I could, including the resisters from Axiom (helped a little), but nothing worked. BTW, I have about the warmest sounding components you can have for the money: HK AVR7000, and the Denon DCM370 CD player. I loved how accurate they were, BUT my ears could'nt take the highs. It was not even ear fatigue for me, it hurt immediately when listening to some of my favorite recordings, Diana Krall, especially.
    So I ending up getting some Pinnacle P6.3's and they sound wonderful (amazing bass down to 28Hz, clearly). The top end with the metal tweeters was still a little much for my ears. So, I found some silk domes with almost the exact same specs. and I am now in music heaven. The highs are still crisp and accurate, but not harsh at all!!

    Everyone has thier own taste. I learned that metal dome tweeters just are not for me, I guess my ears are too sensitive. But that's just me. You are doing the right thing by comparing them with other speakers. Be aware though that most of those speakers you mentioned are also considered "bright" sounding to many people, except the Mirage's. Try to find some decent speakers with a silk or other fabric dome tweeter as well, if you can. Let your ears be the judge. Who knows, after time maybe the Axioms will work great for you. I just know that after 5 months of trying they didn't work for me.

    The QS-8's on the other hand, are the "BEST", bar none, surround speakers!!!

    Patrick
     

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