I want to run my mains as large ...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marcus Lewis, Apr 30, 2002.

  1. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a Rotel RSX-965 which according to tech support has a 100hz crossover.

    However, at that level I notice voices sometimes trying to be reproduced through the sub ... Very annoying.

    I noticed when I set my mains (crappy bookshelves) as large, the crossover drops (not sure to what level) and voices no longer try to come through the sub ... Much better for music, but movies do loose some "oomph". Logically, because the bookshelves currently in use have no grunt ...

    I want to run my mains as large to take advantage of the lower crossover setting while maintining the "oomph" for music/movies.

    Any suggested bookshelves? And how low (frequency) should they be able to extend?

    I am looking strongly at the Axiom M22 or Jbl S38 ... The S38 seems to be more what I'm looking for due to its "punchy" nature as described by reviewers.

    Unfortunately due to geographical limitations, I cannot audition in home, nor am I willing to change my reciever at this point.

    The Outlaw ICBM? is a strong consideration at some point in the future, but I need better speakers any how you swing it.

    Oh yes, I like it LOUD ...
     
  2. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    You run the dual SVS rig, right?

    No crossover available on the sub amp, I suppose.

    Strangely, my HK crosses at 100, and I have never heard voices.

    Sorry to hear about the problem, good luck!
     
  3. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Marcus, If you run your speakers as Large then no bass information is being sent to the sub at all. Booshelf speakers are not capable of reproducing low bass. You should run your speakers as small. Set the crossover as low as it will go on the pre/pro. Unless you buy very expensive truly full range tower speakers you will lose a LOT of bass if you use the large setting.
     
  4. GaryAR

    GaryAR Agent

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    i've got a denon avr3300 amp and energy encore speakers. in the manual they recommend setting the speakers as large, which i did. i think they sound pretty good, but after reading this thread i'm having second thoughts. anybody else here have the encore speakers? any recommendations for which setting i should be using?

    thanks

    -gary
     
  5. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes I have the dual SVS rig, 16-46 CS+'s with a S1000.

    No crossover on amp, reciever has a crossover fixed at 100hz according to Rotel support. Settings are sub y/n, and any combination of speakers as large/small.

    Fact is with the mains set to large and sub set to yes, I still get kicking bass out of my sub, just not the higher frequency bass ... I'm guessing the crossover drops to 80hz or so for the sub, but with the full range of sound being directed to the speakers.

    My problem is the speakers are crap and unable to reproduce 80hz (approximate) bass with authority ...
     
  6. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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  7. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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    If you are hearing "voices" from a subwoofer crossed over at 100 Hz, then you have something out of whack in your system. I don't even think that very many human voices can sing a 100 Hz note.

    If I had to guess, you probably have your subwoofer levels cranked up WAY too high and bass fundamentals are totally drowning out the harmonic structure of the recording.

    A 100Hz crossover is NOT the reason you are localizing the subwoofer.
     
  8. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, "hearing voices" is too strong a statement ...

    With the very lowest voices at my typically very loud listening levels, you can get a low end voice rumble coming through ...

    Doesn't happen often, but it's irritating when it does happen ...

    My sub levels are at the absolue minimum setting for all sound modes.

    I really don't have these issues once I set my mains as large ... My main issue is some good speakers ...

    Ron I'll look into the Polk's ... They sound like just the ticket ...
     
  9. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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    Look at it this way. You have spent the money for TWO of the biggest SVS subwoofers and a 1000 watt amplifier to drive them. But, you want to set your speakers to LARGE so that nothing gets sent to the subwoofer except the LFE channel on Dolby Digital and DTS recordings. That doesn't make logical sense -- there is no speaker that you could possibly buy for the fronts that will reproduce bass as capably as your sub combo.
    Setting you front speakers to LARGE isn't changing the crossover point. It is sending no bass, nada, zilch, zippo from your front speakers to your two large SVS subs and 1000 watt sub amp.
    The only thing that could possibly happening when you set your bookshelf speakers to LARGE is that you are signficantly reducing the amount of bass below 100 Hz. If this sounds "better", then it is a dead giveaway that your subwoofer levels must be too high and/or that your subs are exciting a big room resonance in the 80 to 100 Hz range.
    If it were my system, I would try moving the subs out of the corner a bit to tame any room resonances (you have the luxury of doing this because you have subwoofer output to spare) and I would calibrate the system with an SPL meter to make sure the subwoofer levels are set properly.
     
  10. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok Harold, what you say makes a lot of sense ...
    But, I'm still stumped because, other that the individual sub adjustments for the various modes, I have no other adjustment other than yes or no...
    I think I'm finally getting somewhere and if you have a chance take a glance at my receiver's manual and see if you locate a setting I might be missing?
    http://www.rotel.com/pdfs/manuals/RSX965.pdf
    Thanks in advance ...
     
  11. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  12. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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  13. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually the test tone subwoofer setting is directly connected to the sub modes for all sound settings, i.e, they are both the same value ... MIN
     
  14. scott cerv

    scott cerv Stunt Coordinator

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    Harold,

    Very informative post. I too want to run my fronts as large. In the very near future I will be getting the B&W 604S3, which I find to be a very nice speaker for the money. I thought they really blew away the Paradigm 100's and PSB Silver's. Anyway, I'm giving serious consideration to either the Outlaw or Rotel RSP1066. I think I might like to set the crossover at either 50Hz or 60Hz. If setting to small, will this still crossover at my specified range. I might go down to 40Hz, as I really like the sound of the towers and would like to get as much from them as possible. I've yet to decide on a sub. Either way I'll probably be crossing over at lower than the 80Hz that many choose as I feel it adds a little "mud" to some recordings. Also, I like it loud and record oncerts (WSP, Gov't Mule, Ekoostik Hookah, etc..) These sound great through the speakers as it was one of my audition tracks (I know I know, but I did listen to many other great recordings)

    SC
     
  15. Greg Bright

    Greg Bright Second Unit

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    Ron writes:

    My Marantz receiver lets me set everything to 'large' (which I do) and the sub to 'yes' which sends the bass info to the sub. Sounds perfect. Lots of hard hitting bass with full range sound all around.

    Most receivers do let us set all the speakers to large and set the sub to "yes". But this sure doesn't mean that all the low bass is being sent to the sub. In almost all cases it's still only the LFE channel being directed there. Except for the settings on a very few high-end receivers (possibly an oxymoron)that specifically allow "large plus sub" settings, the only surefire way to get ALL the low bass to the sub is to set ALL other speakers to SMALL. I have "flat to 35Hz towers", and I've tried all the options; ALL SMALL works best for me.

    Greg Brigght
     
  16. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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  17. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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  18. scott cerv

    scott cerv Stunt Coordinator

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    Harold,

    Alright alright, I'll probably do just that then. Only issue I have with running the analog bypass is that the DAC in the DAT deck is trash. I'll look into better DAC's. Can't wait to be recording 24/96!

    SC
     
  19. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  20. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Scott/Harold,

    Not that Harold needs my support, but (at the risk of being redundant), I think the below quote is right on the money. I own the 603s, BTW.

    --Steve
     

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