I want more D-Theater!!! (1 Viewer)

[Bruce Hedtke]

Quote:

Nope. Not a pre-recorded tape. The only tapes I've had eaten were blanks that were used many times over and were, frankly, abused.
The issue of tape bothers me not in the least. I want to buy into D-VHS, but until there is a substantial line-up of films available (say, at least 30), I won't bother with it. I mean, the ones they have out now aren't particularly ones I would want to watch over and over and over again. Besides, in the next year, it's hard to say how far and fast the HD-DVD front might take off.
Bruce

 

[Eric F]

Hell, I'll invest in a DVHS/D-Theater enabled deck just because I can't put up a dish and ATT refuses to carry any HDTV channels, so I'm stuck with OTA.

With one caviat: I could care less if the deck records, but if it's playback only, it better be under $500. If it does record, it has to have a built in HDTV tuner and still cost under $500. It makes absolutely no sense to me that the current JVC D-Theater deck only has an NTSC tuner.

 

[Dave Mack]

VERY good point, Eric!

 

[Eric F]

If all they're looking to do is sell software there is no reason why they can't sell a much cheaper non-recording deck.

Many of us would jump on it in a second.

 

[Bryant Trew]

Let's look at the economics of D-VHS shall we?
You have three movies, and if you spent $1,500 on your D-VHS player, you just spent $500 to watch U571! I think I'll wait for HD-DVD thank you.

 

[Dave Anderson]

As for D-Theater posing a threat to DVD: Don't count on it. D-Theater will probably, at best, expand to a reach that is equivalent to LaserDisc's in its heyday. It is a niche-market format that will appeal to those with 16:9-based, high-scanning displays. The P&S-loving crowd currently embracing DVD and taking it into the mainstream will never cotton to D-Theater in the numbers being enjoyed by the earlier format.

I pray you are right about that. I want a niche format like laserdisc back in my HT. DVD has been tainted now that it's mainstream. Give me those OAR 1080 HD-VHS, and give the mainstream their precious P&S DVDs.

 

[Dave Anderson]

I too would wait until there are a few dozen titles I'm interested in.

Also, I read you can have multiple audio tracks on D-VHS. So there's no reason commentary tracks couldn't be included.

 

[Dan Brecher]

I'm keeping a close eye on the developments of the format frankly. Next year I intend to go the CRT projection route and HDTV does not exist in the UK, it probably never will (insted the UK went the rather un-inspiring DVB route). D-VHS would, until the arrival of HD-DVD, prove as a nice entry for me into the world of HD.

If a well priced playback only player appeared in the US, I would certainly consider getting one once I have moved house and have the dedicated HT built.

I want a niche format like laserdisc back in my HT

I know what you mean. I raised the question a while back that if you could have HD DVD NOW (for the price of what one has to pay for a DVHS player and tapes) with studios on board...etc in the knowledge that it would be put out to a niche market a la LD, would you buy it? I would say yes.

Tape is a step back sure, but they realised people wanted to record HDTV stuff, and tape is still a solid recording medium. That's by far the main reason for the existence of D-VHS in my mind, it's just that some studios and filmmakers have sat up and said "hey, we can give them 28.8mps 1080i (and in future, 1080p?) transfers of our movies NOW!"... HD DVD isnt here, DVD forum keep messing around on the subject, so some studios take advantage of another medium and let a niche market of videophiles have access to such Hi Def transfers now. I have no issues with it.

I don't think anyone sees D-VHS as an intended replacement for DVD, not JVC, nor even the film studios. Interest in D-VHS my perk more interest in HD, which may in turn fuel more solid grounds for a future HD DVD format.

With that said, there would certainly need to be more solid titles to push me over the edge into getting D-VHS, and perhaps one or two more studios on board. With Fox, Universal and Dreamworks on board I could already think of some AAA titles I'd love: Moulin Rouge, A.I, Jurassic Park, Shrek, Pvt Ryan Fight Club...etc to name but a few.

Dan

 

[CamiloCamacho]

and MPEG-4 is not it

What????. MPEG-4 Is better than MPEG 2, the one used in DVHS. OF course i'm not with any Low rate format, but mpeg4 could deliver better quality at the same rate.

Also it's an almost open format, not like Microsoft Corona proposition!!!.

And for (almost) all the people outside US, this will be the only format in HD avalaible. Irresistible (when it comes a bit cheaper).

 

[Jenna]

How could any home theater enthusiast say they "don't care how good it looks" just because it is tape??

Uh, maybe due to their experience with prior video tape?
1) Can you sit there and tell me that you've NEVER had a tape deck chew up one of your tapes? To quote a prior reply "At least DVDs can't get chewed up!" The tape loading mechanisms in decks are just accidents waiting to happen. (And unlike Bruce, I've had MANY a pre-recorded VHS tape eaten by decks. I didn't abuse them either; I've always treated my movie library like gold - in any format.)

2) In a word "REWIND". How can any self-respecting DVD enthusiast EVER want to hit the "rewind" button again??? Record 2 shows on a VHS??? Can you really tolerate the thought of having to fast-forward again to find the show you want? New technology has eliminated that chore...why go back???

I love HighDef as much as the next person, and have already invested a significant amount in my Home Theater so that I can enjoy the HD-broadcasts; yet I will no longer invest in TAPE media. Period. **I don't care how good it looks!** It's not worth it *TO ME*.
If you have the money to throw away, more power to you.

Any new media is a gamble...only I will NOT gamble on tape again. I'll wait for the HD-DVDs, thank you. My patience will be rewarded.

 

[DevinM]

The appeal of dvd to me is as follows:1) The film presented in its OAR and with the original soundtrack.2) The film preserved in my collection, forever, on disc, with no ** degradation of quality whatsoever.*Extras, a/v quality, everything, comes after those two.* Now with 16x9 as a standard, I fear that cropping to fill a 16x9 screen will become commonplace.* As for number two, knowing that my playing a tape will degrade it is enough to hamper my enjoyment of the collecting aspect, and the apparent degradation of the signal will hamper my enjoyment of the film.* Sounds like fun to me.* But look! You can see more detail on his buttons! No thanks.*Its all about the films guys, thats why we're here.* The abilityto have a classic film complete with audio commentaries and documentaries preserved on a 5 inch disc is a truly amazing thing.* Let's expect nothing less from the next format we embrace.

 

[Damin J Toell]

Its all about the films guys, thats why we're here.

Yup. And D-VHS currently provides the highest quality presentation of films of any home format.

DJ

 

[Dave Anderson]

**I don't care how good it looks!**

Great, so a format exists that seemingly blows away DVD, and you are willing to ignore it.

I respect your right to form your own opinion, I just disagree with it entirely.

I love supplements as much as the next guy. But I'll take twice the quality and live without the supplements. OR, I'll just buy the SE DVD to compliment the HD-VHS tape. I don't think any HD-VHS owners are going to be ditching their DVD players...

 

[Eggert]

I have been following this D-VHS vs DVD (/HD-DVD) debate for a while and have a few observations.

Quote:

This is just wrong. I have had DVD since march 1998. I have a sizable collection of DVDs (just under 400) and I also have a sizable investment in equipment. I am not being defensive or refusing to see the truth. I acknowledge that D-VHS has better video quality. However, I simply cannot ignore points b and c.

I would exchange all my DVDs with a better disc based format in a heart beat, but I refuse to buy into a tape based format. For the reasons I mentioned above and also because the studios have always shown a preference for tape based formats and I do not want to encourage them to go in that direction. Wether D-VHS actually represents a threat to DVD I do not know. It would probably be very difficult for studios to move the market back to a format that people are just now moving away from (and DVD has been on the market for 5 years now).


Best regards,
Eggert

 

[Eric F]

Mpeg-4 is not better than Mpeg-2 in visual quality. They're intended for different uses.

Mpeg-4 is mainly a streaming medium and heavily compressed. It's also limited to about 10mbps max, and while the codec is being improved all the time, I sincerely doubt that an Mpeg4 movie encoded at the same bitrate as an Mpeg2 film will look or sound as good, especially at HDTV resolutions like 1080i/720p.

As for players, when you have an HDTV but no access to the signal, there really aren't many options. Most people are buying widescreen HDTVs to watch DVDs on.

 

[Bruce Hedtke]

Let's expect nothing less from the next format we embrace.

You don't have to embrace D-VHS. HD-DVD is coming. D-VHS just beat it out of the gates. Think of it this way: if D-VHS hadn't come along, HD-DVD would probably take twice as long to develop and you probably would've been stuck with something like MPEG-4 coding. Look at the announcements before the release of D-VHS versus the announcements after the release of D-VHS. Before-"We don't know when HD-DVD is going to be available. It may be 6-10 years out. Blue Laser technology? At least 10 years away" After-"HD-DVD, probably in 3-5 years and we will probably have a usable Blue-Ray alternative within 5 years". Those are generalizations, but the point is the same: D-VHS has catapulted the HD-DVD think-tank to ramp up their efforts and push to get a "suitable" DVD option on the market. D-VHS won't be an overwhelming success. It will, however, move just enough units to convince the HD-DVD developers that people want what the D-VHS offers video and audio wise on an optical disc. If it doesn't, that's when we may see something sub-standard like MPEG-4 becoming the HD-DVD format. So, in short, D-VHS won't be so popular that we will U-turn back to tape but it will be popular enough to convince the studios that the public won't tolerate lower bit rate schemes. I look at D-VHS as being the best guarentee that we will see a true Blue Laser HD-DVD.

Bruce

 

[Dave Anderson]

c. Offers the possibility of value added features (commentaries, direct scene access, alternate angles, and so on).

Everything I've read on HD-VHS indicates that multiple audio tracks can be stored on DVHS. From http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/dvhs/index.html:

But don't look for extras other than the film itself, and MAYBE the occasional commentary.

So commentaries are a possibility. I can see featurettes and deleted scenes not being too attractive on a tape based format. However, extras are icing on the cake for me. I want high quality audio/video before anything else. And don't forget, I don't forsee any DVHS owners abandoning DVD anytime soon. If I own a DVHS of one particular title and it also has a special edition DVD that I really want, I'll drop the $20 for the DVD. It would have to be a movie I really like, of course.
Everyone's preference is different. My requirements for DVHS adoption are:

A player below $1000
At least a dozen titles that I *really* like
No HD-DVD availability within the next year[/list]
I look at my DVD collection now (consisting of hundreds of DVDs) and I can count the number of titles I've watched twice on both hands. Hey, I'm first to bitch about tape and how it will degrade over time. But in reality, I wouldn't watch the titles enough for them to actually wear down. I mean, how many viewings is it going to take? Lets give a low number and say a dozen viewings. That's probably about 3 or 4 years for me.
D-VHS is not the be all and end all of formats. Neither is DVD. I do see the argument for both sides. For me, extras are not a show stopper by any means. For me, durability isn't a huge factor because, quite simply, I'm not going to be watching the title dozens of times.
I own a HD TV that I want to take full advance of now, not years down the road when HD-DVD arrives.

 

[Paul E. Fox II]

The arguments listed above are pretty much dead on from both camps. For those of us who want the ABSOLUTE best picture, the D-Theater seems to be the way to go. I myself find myself in the "I don't want a tape based format ever again" camp. Also unlike Bruce, I've lost many Pre-Recorded tapes to a pesky VCR and while most of them were salvagable, there are still wrinkles in them near the leader tape (I ALWAYS rewind my tapes). I've also seen and can attest to the fact that there will be wear and tear on the tape mechanics from the beginning, whether it be a big problem, or a minor problem...when something phyically comes into contact with something else, there is always wear!
The picture on the D-Theater stuff may be out of this world, but I'll stick with the shiny discs myself, that is until Holo-Crystals (or whatever they may be called) hit the shelves!

 

[Bryant Trew]

For me on a stunning 58" widescreen anamorphic RPTV, the improvement in picture quality simply is not a big enough incentive for me to go back to tape. Let's be honest... It's a pathetic format fellas. If you find DVD so pathetic compared to D-VHS that you can no longer really enjoy the film, then I think it's not the film that turns you on... It's the technology.

Or you've got so much money that you don't care about spending $500 to watch U571.

 

[Dave Mack]

Ok, worse case scenario... we plunk down $1400 or so + extra $ for an ext. warranty, LOVE the quality, buy about 4 or 5 titles and then... due to VERY poor sales, they decide to "phase out" production of numerous or even ANY more titles... The other studios who have been sitting on thr sidelines are watching and don't Bite and it becomes another DOA format ala DAT or minidisc as far as pre-recorded software. Won't our little D-VHS look cute in 3 years, just sitting there collecting dust when HD-DVD is just breaking...
:frowning: D