I think I need EQ ?(recommendations?), not better subwoofer

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Greg Lee, Dec 27, 2001.

  1. Greg Lee

    Greg Lee Agent

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    I've been dissappointed with the sloppy bass of my new HT system, especially for music. System consists of:

    Onkyo TS-DX696 reciever

    Sony DVP-NC600 DVD player (relatively low end - $230)

    HTD Level III 5.1 speaker system (not towers)

    This is in a large room (6500 ft^3)(20x25) with vaulted ceiling slanting from 8 to 16 feet high in the 25' direction (which is also the 'front' of the room where main spkrs are positioned). Seating location near middle of room. I have all speakers set to small (claimed response for the mains & surrounds is 43-20k, 30-250 for the 12" sub) and the sub XO set to its highest setting.

    Initially I was attributing the problem to a deficiency in the subwoofer; then I've taken the following measurements (these ARE corrected for the RS meter) using the Avia sweep.

    HZCorrected SPL

    180 75

    150 71

    130 71

    120 82

    110 82

    100 77

    90 91

    80 90+ (over range)

    70 90+ (over range)

    60 90+ (over range)

    50 86

    40 80

    35 79

    30 79

    25 29

    There is a sad dropoff around 130-160, and a WICKED peak between 50 and 90 HZ. It looks like the best investment to rectify the situation would be an EQ; I suppose that even a great subwoofer would not really do any better in this room?

    What would be a good (but economical/good value point) EQ to compliment my system?

    These measurements were taken with sub on the front wall; moving sub to corner or under coffee table resulted in similar sloppy sound,although I did not take measurements for these locations.
     
  2. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    The problem with using an EQ in your setup is that your receiver doesn't (I think)have pre-outs main-ins to insert an EQ, so you'd need an external power amp.

    You could try lowering the crossover in your sub so it drops out at a lower level, ie around the peak at 70-90Hz. While this means doubling the crossover, it may sound better than your wicked hump.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  3. Ray R

    Ray R Stunt Coordinator

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    Is your sub a powered sub hooked into the LFE channel of your receiver or is it a passive sub being fed from the speaker outputs of your receiver?

    If it is a passive sub, you would probably benefit more from a powered sub since it would take all the low end work off your receiver's amps.

    If you are running a powered sub, an EQ will make a world of difference. It probably want do anything for the drop off you have since those frequencies are mostly handled by your main speakers. Remember that with your speakers set to small, your receiver will route lower frequencies to your sub. Your receiver crossover is probably either 80 or 100 Hz. Your sub will still see frequencies above the crossover point, but your mains will be handling most of the work.

    With an EQ you would be able to pull back the peak which will most likely allow you to turn your sub up more. You could also boost response on the low end.
     
  4. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Probably the best bang for buck Parametric EQ for in-room bass adjustment is the Behringer -> BFD 1124P. Cost about $129. Get it online and/or at Pro music stores.

    This is inserted between the sub-out RCA jack on the back of your receiver and the RCA input of a powered sub.

    BruceD
     
  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I would also recommend getting the Autosounds 2000 or Stryke bass test CDs.

    You can't really use the sweeps on Avia with any kind of real accuracy.

    I'll 2nd the suggestion for the Behringer. Really powerful, and actually quite reasonably priced.
     
  6. Greg Lee

    Greg Lee Agent

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    Thanks for the replies. I looked up the Behringer website and don't see any mention of a 'BFD 1124P'. Could you clarify? Or a general 'spec' in terms of number of bands, etc would be useful.
     
  7. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    It is the current replacement for the BFD 1100P.

    Just new DACs I think.

    BruceD
     
  8. Greg Lee

    Greg Lee Agent

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    I must be dense tonight, but I can't find a BFD anything by Behringer (behringer.com right?)

    thanks
     
  9. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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  10. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Ray R:

     
  11. Chris Demaree

    Chris Demaree Stunt Coordinator

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    I just EQ'd my SVS 20-39pc with a new Behringer Feedback Destroyer pro (DSP1124P). It was cheap, easy to use (after searching for information on this site) and it works very, very well. The manual was very helpful and well written. Once I get a better bass test disk (I used AVIA), I will be able to target the problem spots much more accurately.
     
  12. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Man, this BFD 1124P sounds like just the ticket for my lively room. Where did you guys find it? I also had the problem of not finding info on anything other than the 1100 model.

    Will is just lay on top of the Samson 700 amp? Or does it need it's own rack? (I'm outta shelves!)

    Guess I'll look over at j&r and onecall.
     
  13. jeff peterson

    jeff peterson Supporting Actor

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    I got my BFD 1124 here for $129:Lentine's
     
  14. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Jeff, thanks for the url for the 1124p.
    I am entirely unfamiliar with parametric eqs. Now the question: does the BFD 1124p ($129) offer real value? Or would it be better to save up until I can afford the Rane PE17 ($399). I guess what I'm trying to find out is if there are trade-offs in choosing the BFD over the Rane that I might not want to make... other than to save $270!
    Has anyone compared the two? Well, a search on the HTF turned up a lot of info, and it appears the BFD holds its ground pretty well.
    Is there any outstanding reason to not get the BFD 1124p? Guy Kuo? You have any input on this? [​IMG]
    I gotta turn up the research mode on this a bit. The price for this unit puts it in my immediate buy ballpark.
     
  15. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    I must have had a brain drain above regarding EQ with a powered sub. Of course you can.

    I'll second the Behringer Feedback Destroyer idea. I've used one for a couple of years with great results.

    If you really wanted to go to town and EQ your whole system, the Behringer Ultracurve also produces remarkable results.

    Steve
     
  16. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Just out of curiosity, does the BFD EQ go between the receiver and the amp.. or between the amp and the sub? (20-39cs)

    IE, will I need another interconnect or will my standard HomeDepot 12g speaker wire do?
     
  17. Harold Leroy

    Harold Leroy Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone compared the BFD against the ART 351. I know they are reaaly different, but will the ART work in most cases?
     
  18. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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    Rick,

    The BFD goes between the receiver and the sub's amp. You will need another IC and also a pair of 1/4 inch to RCA converters. Cheap ones are fine- can get a 75 ohm RCA IC and the non gold converters at radio shcak for about $4.

     
  19. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    The BFD parametric EQs have much better control over the EQ parameters than the ART 351.

    The ART uses rotary dials that are VERY hard to optimize. A very small movement of the dial causes a very large change in results. Also you probably need to glue the rotary controls in place so nobody changes them.

    The BFD has 12 filters per channel (Left and Right) which is quite a bit more than the ART.

    Bottom line, get the BFD.

    BruceD
     
  20. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Brian,
    Thanks for the info on the BFD.
    w/r/t the sub hookup, thanks for reorienting me. I see what you're saying. But somehow it just doesn't look pretty to me. [​IMG]
     

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