I so thought I was doing good! ugh! (1 Viewer)

[crankbait09]

Hello all

new to this forum and never thought i would really be involved in a home theater system enough to have to ask specific questions.

I recently upgraded my HTiB from a JVC TH-C5, to a random set up. The TH-C5 performed great for me for a good 10 years or so. still works very well. I recently purchased a new tv for christmas (LG 55" LED) and the JVC isnt quite compatible to the tv for my liking. So off to best buy i went to see the HTiB's they had to offer. The sales dude tried talking me out of the system. telling me to go to the receiver route and building a system that way. To me, it was a way for me to spend MORE money than I wanted to. I told him my issue and he told me to buy a reciever and use the existing speakers that I have from the JVC and run everything that way. At least I'd have the HDMI inputs that i need for the new tv. He did tell me that the sub would not work.

So I went with a Denon AVR-1513. It was on sale for $190 on Amazon, and he gladly matched thier price rather than the $249 they had it on sale for. so I thought that was cool. I got the receiver home and got everything hooked up. I am impressed. It is working like I had hoped it would and I see no problems thus far.

I do have a couple questions though.

1. When I am setting up the speakers, I have the option of specifying the db rating for each speaker. How do I know where they should be set at? I have never had to set speaker decibal ratings before. since I was in the HTiB world. again, i thought I was living the dream!! now i realize there is far more above and beyond a HTiB. so, how do I know what the settings should be at?

2. With the AVR-1513, how do I know what subwoofer this receiver can handle? Is there a max wattage??? I need to know what I should be shopping for and know that this receiver will push it just fine! I love bass, but i also know i have a lower end model of a receiver......

any help would be appreciated.

 

[schan1269]

Well...The guy at BB was right...but.1. If those speakers are anything under 6ohm. Stop using them. Otherwise...you set the DB rating where you have all 5 speakers the same volume when test tones.2. You buy a powered subwoofer. The Denon does not care what subwoofer you buy.

 

[Al.Anderson]

Yeah, if I'm reading tha manual correctly it looks like the JVC speakers are 3 ohm - stop using them immediately or you may damage the Denon; at best the Denon will trip its auto-shutdown.

As for setting the speakers, the system does that for you when you run the Audyssey auto-calibration. If you were to do it manually, the idea is to get the same volume from each speaker at the central listening location.

 

[crankbait09]

crapola.......

you have now lost me..........

you mentioned that the speakers need to be 6 ohms or better. If my speakers are 3ohms, why isnt that ok? im figuring that the lower ohms would be using less.....no?

please explain why this is a bad thing

so without the budget to replace all my speakers.......im wondering if i return it and wait for the right time.

can i use everything if i plug headphones in? thats mainly how it will be used anyways. no one in the family really watches movies............

thank you for the replies but not i am a tad confused. the bb dude said that i could use what i have and all will be fine........

 

[crankbait09]

as for the sub, can anyone recommend a decent sub for the price? preferrably a sub with a small budget but great sound

is this a decent set up for what I need? I notice it is 6ohm
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-SP1800BL-5-1-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B001AVRD62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388497066&sr=8-1&keywords=home+theater+speakers

 

[schan1269]

Yes, that Yamaha set will work. And will also be an improvement. I was going to suggest that very one.

 

[bryan4999]

I don't normally chime in on these tech things, but I do know that ohms equals resistance, therefore the less resistance the more power can flow. I know this from experience; back in the late 1980s, I bought my first Pro Logic receiver, a Pioneer unit. I promptly burned it up using 4 ohm speakers, not realizing that the device was rated for no lower than 8 ohms. (I can't remember the brand of receiver that I had before that, but it was an audiophile type receiver that my Uncle had given me and was capable of driving the lower ohm rated speakers.) I have to hand it to Pioneer though; even though the damage was caused by "user error", they honored the warranty even though I came clean about what I did. The Pioneer rep then told me that they had a slightly more expensive model that had a switch on the back that you could set for 4 ohms instead of 8. He offered me a nice upgrade deal which I accepted. That receiver lasted me until I upgrade to Dolby Digital in about 2003. That Pioneer experience was from the days when customer service still existed. The rep even invited me down to his office in Long Beach to talk about it (I was living in L.A. at the time).

 

[Al.Anderson]

It is counter-intuitive. What happens is that because the resistance is lower than the receiver is spec'd for, it tries to provide additional power (because it can), but that means it draws too much power from the power supply and burns itself out. If you want to live on the edge, you *could* use those speakers as long as you kept the volume low. (As long as it doesn't try to draw too much power it should be okay.) If you look around you'll see that receivers/amps that can drive 4 ohm speakers (the industry standard low end) are more expensive; that's because of the more robust power supply for the system.

The guy at BB was simply wrong. The best we can give him is that receviers that use low ohm speakers usually have proprietary connectors, and if you mentioned that the speakers had standard wiring he may have assumed they were at least 4 ohms. (And I'm really stretching to give him the benefit of the doubt; unless he looked up your JVC he really had no freakin' idea if they were compatable.)

The Yamaha speakers are good, but I'll add my standard disclaimer - satellite speakers are great for watching movies, but do not provide a great audio experience. That's due to their small speaker size (usually 2.5 inches). If you are looking for great audio, look at some bookshelf speakers (4.5-6 inch speakers). You could consider going with just stereo and adding additional speakers as you have the funds. (The receiver can be configured for any number of speakers.) On the other hand, if you will watch movies on the system, the Yamahas are a great start, and then you can swap in bookshelfs as you get the cash.

 

[schan1269]

AI and I (along with many posters here) have differing opinion on what constitutes a "receiver".Not in a million years would I call HTiB systems a receiver.Very few switch video inputs. None can be upgraded. All sound lousy. All has BS specs.And yes, that Yammy set is small. So are(were) the JVC. Point being...The Denon + Yamaha = immense improvement.

 

[crankbait09]

thank you for clarifying the ohm issue.

So if I had these speakers running for 3 hours straight, how much damage have i inflicted on the receiver? anything to worry about?

i will most likely only have this surround for movies and an occassional cd, but not often. movies will be 90% of it.

 

[schan1269]

In "truth" your Denon is "technically fine" using the JVC speakers...but.AVR are only designed to produce X amount of power.At 8Ohm it takes say..80% gain.(frame of reference only)At 4ohm it takes 40% gain to produce the same "X amount of power".Add that to these JVC are probably freakishly inefficient (like 79db or lower) and you "run over the X amount of power".The Yamaha will be much more efficient (more efficient means, takes less power).

 

[schan1269]

By the way, you've probably already noted the JVC get louder on the Denon than they ever got with the original center piece.

 

[crankbait09]

actually, i didnt turn it up that loud, afraid of "hurting" something other than my ears. with me not having a sub yet, not sure how loud these speakers can go with a unit like this. I know I could turn the JVC loud and I knew the limits. it was a good system. will this system sound a lot better with a subwoofer or can i set the decibal ratings without a sub and have it sound awesome?

i remember at times, when I was watching a movie and there was a loud explosion of some sort, the subwoofer would actually turn itself off. The only way for me to repower it, was to turn it all off and power it back on. not sure why it ever did that. Not all the time, but random times at "loud" points.

 

[schan1269]

Probably cause it crapped its diaper...Turning it off and on was changing it.

You could(and I would do this anway) set the AVR as "yes you have a sub" and then set the crossovers at 120/150/200(whatever they can handle)...

The sats aren't doing anything under one of those anyway...no reason to stress the Denon sending it. Then, when you do get a sub(or the entire Yamaha...which I would pick the entire Yamaha)...just make sure the Denon is off...connect the sub.

Regardless. I would not run those JVC longer than 90 days.

 

[crankbait09]

ok, i have removed the speakers after reading i shouldnt use them. I will be buying the speakers this friday (Yamaha, wahoo!!!)

"You could(and I would do this anway) set the AVR as "yes you have a sub" and then set the crossovers at 120/150/200(whatever they can handle)..."

sorry you spoke greek to me

 

[schan1269]

Modern AVR have bass management to cater to differently capable speakers.

Once you get the Yamaha set, the manual will tell you what the sats(the 5.0 portion) are capable of frequency wise. I'm venturing a guess...120hz.

Your Denon(read the manual) has speaker set up.

In the speaker setup, once you've said "yes" for the subwoofer, there is a sub-menu(if Denon still does like I remember...the 4520 is the last Denon I've touched...but yours is not a 4520).

The sub menu is where you, in turn, pick the crossover for sub, center, front and surround.

 

[crankbait09]

ok, once i get these speakers in, im sure this will all make sense..........

till then...

thank you for your help