I need some help with my new Samsung DLP...

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Jonathan Carter, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    I got my HLP4663W this weekend and have been playing around with it already and have run into a couple of problems.

    I'm having a problem getting any good black level on this set. Even with the correct ambient light or no light at all, the screen still appears to bright and grayish.

    I reduced the gamma in the service menu from 2 to 0 but that lost some shadow detail to my eyes so I bumped it up to 1. I have also done Avia and everything seems to be where it should be at.

    Also, should I be using my Phillips 642 dvd player (sort of cheap, $70, hooked up via component cables) in progressive scan mode or not with this set? I honestly can't tell much of a difference at all and what difference is there, I'm not sure which I prefer.

    Does anyone have experience with these sets? Maybe some service menu tweaks they can pass along. For almost $2000 I'm not as happy as I feel I should with the picture. Just seems off for some reason and I'm sure there are other HLP line owners on this board who can help. Am I being to picky or is there something I can do outside of a $200-$500 calibration? Thanks.
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Don't forget that the greens are all wonky too. Like bright neon greens. Yuck. :p)

    YOu could try a better player, but unless there is something seriously wrong with the player, things won't improve that much.

    Best Gamma is determined with instrumentation and it is not always 0 or 1 ... sometimes it is 4 ... varies from set to set.

    Use the test disc to set brightness and contrast. Once you get those right ... then what you see is what you are supposed to see. When brightness is set right ... you don't lose shadow detail because what is hidden is something you are not supposed to see anyway.

    You can go to the color decoder and fix that and that is about it for the tweaks unless you get instrumentation and professional level experience.

    The SRP for a pro level calibration is $275 ... and you will get a much more accurate grayscale out of it ... the best gamma the set can do ... and a more accurate color space.

    Regards
     
  3. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    hi

    first make sure your player is setup correctly. the Philips is known for crushing blacks so turn up the dvd players brightness control so you can see the pluge pattern.

    once you do the above then you can set black level on the TV.

    the sammy gamma setting is somewhat hard to set and instrumentation is quite helpful.

    Happy viewing!!

    Gregg
     
  4. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    Ok, so is this set that bad? My other option is a Panasonic LCD, 44", model # PT-44LCX65, or the Sony Grand Wega LCD, 42", model #KDF42WE655. I do a lot of gaming and I have a whole wall of east facing windows in my apt. so CRT RP is out and was under the impression that the Samsung DLP RP would be better than an LCD RP. Am I wrong? What is your opinion of the other 2 sets I mentioned? I hate to have spent $2000 for a sub-par tv.
     
  5. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Not a bad set at all ... very decent actually ... if you can get past the rainbows.

    Of the 2 LCD units, the Sony is better than the panasonic as it is far more tweakable from its service menu. The grayscale also tracks better with the Sony.

    Regards
     
  6. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    I'm about 11 ft back from the set so I'm not sure if the screen door effect would be a problem with the LCD sets, and while I do see the rainbows in the DLP, it's about once every hour or two and only for a split second each time so they don't really bother me and my girlfriend hasn't mentioned them so I won't be bringing them up to her since she may start looking for them then.

    How would you rate the Sony LCD vs. the Samsung DLP set I have? One of the reasons I ended up going with the DLP was that they are supposed to have better blacks but I haven't seen it yet. It looks about the same as the LCDs I saw in the stores. Thanks for the advice by the way. Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, I just don't want to have paid this much $$ for a TV I may end up being disappointed with.
     
  7. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    DLP's have slightly better blacks than the Sony LCD for instance ... however ... the transition from dark gray down to black is far smoother on an LCD than it is on the DLP.

    The transition takes up a greater amount of image time than just black. What looks worse ... a gray black or a black made of green granules ...

    SDE is effectively a non issue at normal viewing distances.

    Regards
     
  8. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    So, I take it, in your opinion, you would say the Sony LCD would give me a better picture than the Samsung DLP I have right now given my particular gripes. I'm not holding you to this of course, but since you are an ISF tech, you know far more than I do so I'm just asking your honest opinion.

    Would the Sony give a better picture out of the box for my situation given what my complaints were in the post, and would the Sony be easier to tweak into a great image than the Samsung, which seems to have issues for me with the blacks, the green tint, and the lackluster image quality I seem to be getting. My Superbit Spiderman 2 looks horrible on it when I tried it out today so I think that was the final straw. The colors were muted and the image seemed soft.

    Again, thanks for the advice and hopefully you can help me with my decision because in the store, they look similar and I don't want to keep having TVs delivered and picked up from my place. Maybe my expectations are to great for sets that cost between $2000-$2500.
     
  9. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I find the Sony to be better looking out of the box with less weird stuff going on.

    Bear in mind that no technology is perfect and they all have their own issues.

    I find the Samsung to have an image that is rather fatiguing to look at.

    Mind you, there is a lot of user calibration information available on the Sony GW units. If you are handy ... you can do a heck of a lot more to improve the image on the LCD than the Samsung.

    Funny ... as bad as you think things are ... before the arrival of the digital displays, the CRT RPTV tended to look even worse OOTB.

    Regards
     
  10. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    Well, I thank you Michael, you have been a huge help to me. I'll post and let you know what I've decided on in the next couple of days. Chances are good though that I'll be the proud owner of a new Sony LCD this weekend. As I sit here watching my Carnivale box set and the picture is dull and washed out with no blacks in the dark scenes I'm getting that itch again. May be time for another trip to Circuit City tomorrow to set up the exchange.
     
  11. John_Bonner

    John_Bonner Supporting Actor

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    I have a Samsung HLP model DLP (the 5085W) and I love it.
    I've read elsewhere that you should give the bulb about 100 hours of use before doing any calibration adjustments.

    I used Avia to calibrate my settings. I haven't gone into the Service Menu mainly because I'm very happy with the image I am getting and don't want to start tweaking...for tweaking sake.

    Have you viewed any high definition programming on your unit? That is where these DLPs really shine. I have a moderately priced Sony DVD player connected via component and the picture looks very good (I have progressive mode turned on). I have also connected my computer through the VGA port and watched DVD's upscaled to 1280 x 720 using Zoomplayer and ffDshow. The picture was stunning.

    Have you tried the other settings in the menu besides Contrast, Brightness, etc? There are settings for DNie, MCC color control, and a few others I can't think of offhand.

    As far as the rainbows, I saw them when I first got the set. I was bummed about this but after about 3 months no more rainbows. It's as if your eyes or brain adjust so it's no longer an issue. Others on AVS have reported similar results.

    Good luck with whatever you decide!
     
  12. Jonathan Carter

    Jonathan Carter Supporting Actor

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    Well, the rainbows aren't a big issue but the color, softness, and poor black level in a technology that is supposed to have good black level are of concern. That's why I have been tweaking it. Out of the box the picture was pretty lackluster. I've changed the color, contrast, brightness, gamma, etc to no avail.

    As for the "enhancements" like the DNie, noise reduction, etc..., I don't ever use those because they change the picture in artificial ways and hurt the natural image quality in my book.

    I'll probably give it a couple more days though but I can't wait over 100 hours for a tv to get into a groove because that will be cutting it very close as far as my 30 return policy goes. Besides, while I can understand a set needing a little time to get going, I can't imagine any amount of time will cure the softness, lack of real color and vibrance, or green push this set seems to have to me. Maybe I just got a bad set though.
     

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