I need help placing speakers. I have a blueprint to share! All opinions welcome...

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Sam_S, Jan 9, 2005.

  1. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Just like the title says, I've finally pulled the trigger on some good speaker deals I found. Now that i've got them sitting on the floor of my den, I suddenly realize that I have no idea where it's best to place them!

    My goal *was* to eventually have a very nice surround system... but given the position of the chairs in my room as it stands now (and I assume the strange acoustics of the high sloping ceiling), that doesn't look very possible (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong).

    In the graphic, I say the television cannot be moved. I don't mean that litterally- I just mean that it must stay close to one of the cable outlets (duh), and i'd prefer it to stay where it is... I'm worried about the heat from the radiators if I put it squarely in front of one of the windows.

    One more piece of utterly useless information? The right window gets tons of afternoon sun. Tons. I have curtains that I can leave down, and I can even get a black curtain to add to the existing brown ones to make it even darker- but I mention it in case it's important. The far window also gets directional sunlight that shines into the seat of the chair in the back left corner. Again, I mention it in case it's important... besides the obvious reason of direct sunlight on the picture producing glare.

    Here's what I'm working with (sorry if the image is huge):
    Click here if the image doesn't automatically display
    [​IMG]

    Please let me know what you think I should do! Where should they go for good sound? Is surround possible? If so, what goes where?!

    ~Sam
     
  2. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Sam,

    Corner-based set-ups are usually the worst kind, because they are difficult to implement properly. For instance, the seating should ideally be directly facing the TV. As you can see, this means the seat would be situated 45-degrees in the middle of the room. Other problems with corner set-ups is that the front speakers end up being really close together, and the rear speakers are really wide apart. Plus one always ends up being much closer to the main seat than the other. Not to mention, you want the rear speakers aimed at the seating position, which makes them at 45-degree angles on or against the wall. Looks really unattractive.

    I suggest moving the TV to where the daybed/sofa is. Center your primary seat between the closet and the opposite wall, and put the TV directly in front of it. That is, it will be closer to the chair in the corner than the fridge. The front speakers would be on either side of the TV, the center on top of it. The future sub can go in the corner where the chair is now. With your primary seat equidistant between the closet and opposing wall, rear speaker placement will be easy to determine.

    The cathedral ceiling is an asset, not a liability. The have reduced ceiling reflections, and anytime you depart from parallel surfaces it tends to improve bass response – at least as far as problematic room nulls are concerned.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  3. Jon W.

    Jon W. Stunt Coordinator

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    I agree with Wayne, 100%. Corner setups are the worst IMHO. The TV where the daybed is would be a lot better if possible.
     
  4. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Okay, I read your post- and I put together another blueprint to see if I understood what you were talking about. Is this more like what you were talking about?

    [​IMG]


    This leaves room for the sub box on either side of the tv- and the fridge can easily be switched around to another location if that corner is better... hell, with this new setup, I can fit in another recliner if I find one that I like for general seating. It looks more cluttered in the graphic then it does (as far as I can picture, at least) in the room. That's what I get for using MSPaint though, right?

    So in that setup, you can see the recliner would be the main seat. How would you set up the speakers for 5.1 surround? If I set it up for the pleasure of the person sitting in the recliner, what would the sound be like for the other people in the room? I can't imagine they would get any sort of pleasent sound.

    I'm also planning on getting rid of the daybed as soon as possible (replacing it with a sofa), but the doorway into the room is under 27", so it's not possible to get most standard furnature in here... anyway, my main goal is to have a very very watchable television setup. A close second comes an audio experience to match for everyone in the room- and i'm willing to put any of the furnature anywhere it has to go to get that [​IMG]

    Please feel free to mess with any of my drawings if you have a good idea that's easiest to show in paint. I can be emailed at [email protected] if anyone wants to send me an attached file.

    I'm doin my best to get this room set up- If only it were a perfect rectangle, and didnt have this stupid chimney/closet/radiator set of issues...

    Thanks for your time [​IMG]

    ~Sam
     
  5. Jon W.

    Jon W. Stunt Coordinator

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    I emailed you a revision I whipped up. I added in a wall where the fridge is, turning it into an equipment rack. I think in wall equipment racks are cool and wish I could incorporate one into my room. Making one like I put in the picture would possibly help reduce reflections of sound of the dead space/ closet wall. Building the wall/rack would make the room a perfect rectangle room maybe 12x15 which is almost exactly the same size as my little room. Its really easy to fill with sound and can produce jaw dropping bass with ease. This plan may be a little more than what you wanted but just a thought I had. Feel free to post it and get other's opinions though if you like it.

    Tuning the sound into the recliner would work well seing how it is in the center of your back wall in my opinion. This is how I have mine tuned in and my actual listening position is back left. Tuning it to the center of the back wall insures that the guests/wife get fairly well balanced sound on their side.
     
  6. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Here 's the revision that Jon W. was nice enough to do: (I also edited his revision, noticing that I had included a confusing indicator to the height of the room, etc, etc. I hope he doesn't mind that the origional is only on my HD- Jon, if you want me to post JUST your image, I will... just tell me)

    [​IMG]


    Personally, I really like the idea- I'm just not sure the project of putting up a wall is in my price range ATM. I hadn't thought about putting a rack up in general, but that would be the perfect place for it- especially if I could wall it like you show in the blueprint! I wonder how much that would cost- and who I should be asking for such a quote.

    Looking at the then rectangular room, I'm even more frusterated about my inability to get a sofa in there. I see two places I would love to put a 3x1 L-shaped sofa... or even a plain old regular sofa! I've been putting off a visit to IKEA for quite some time (my wallet and my body both are protesting violently). I want to pick up a recliner to replace the ottoman'd chair, and I want to pick up this sofa ( CLICK ). I just need to do some measurements, as I was hoping it could fit in the back right hand corner between the radiators (and slightly in front of them).

    I also like the sub location, assuming it *will* sound nice. Is this location/room size suited more for a single 10" or single 12" or two 10"s (or two 12"s)? The good part, I suppose, is that no matter what it requires- Jon's location would keep it out of the way, and still let it fit [​IMG]


    My major question though, is if the placement of chairs goes similarly to how Jon has laid things out, where would I position the bookshelf speakers? I can put in wall brackets on the far wall- but the window/radiator prevent placement in the exact center, and the chimney/closet prevent any sort of wall mount on the side closest to the entrence. Where did you plan in your mind to put the bookshelf speakers?

    Part of me wants to return the bookshelves and get 2 more towers instead (would there be a downside to that?), and then it would be less of a hassle finding a place to put the speakers- unless people really dont think that bookshelf speakers mounted on poles look that ugly?

    Sorry for the novel.

    ~Sam
     
  7. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    (Sorry if it's considered tacky to double post, but I wanted to add this before I forgot)

    Looking at the ceiling of this room, the diagonal slope of the walls as it approaches the flat "platform" height of the cathedral ceiling, I suddenly remembered the speaker design that Mirage uses for it's OMNI FX series. Would there be any benifit (or is it possible to even flush mount those speakers against a wall) to perhaps returning the bookshelf speakers I purchased, and instead get FX speakers that could be mounted on that slope? The natural angle is downward towards the listeners... which can't be bad ... but I suppose it still makes sense to have actual rear bookshelf style speakers. Perhaps if I ever decide to get something akin to 6.1, I'll test out my theory about the OMNI FX placement.

    Sheesh, this is still a lot more complicated then I expected. Part of me wants to take pictures of the room with my digital camera, and then take them to my local Gramaphone/Tweeter and see if they can help me design a placement. I don't need anything terribly custom- I just want to be able to listen to my HD movies (now that I finally own a TV I've wanted for YEARS!) in surround sound or better!

    ~Sam
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    I'd probably just move the day bed out into the room, facing the TV, put the surrounds in the coners, Front R/L on each side of the TV....
     
  9. Jon W.

    Jon W. Stunt Coordinator

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    The surrounds have tons of options. Two towers would be fine, or two bookshelf's on stands, or bookshelf's mounted high up on the left and right walls. Maybe even mounted on the left and right angles of the ceiling where it meets the walls. Not a real big issue with this new room setup and whatever you like best will be fine I'm sure. Once you got rid of the corner loaded TV set up you made things a lot more flexible.

    Building the wall should be fairly simple and you might could do it yourself. You can get the door prehung from Lowes or Home Depot. Just frame out the wall with 2x4's and cover it with drywall or whatever. You don't have to do it now either, you can always just wait till the funds come your way. If you do it yourself the only thing that would be expensive would be the prehung door(maybe $150?). The 2x4's and drywall wouldn't cost 50 bucks I'd bet. You could even pick out your door and measure it, then build the wall leaving room to add it later. Hell you could even scrap the door and just make a doorway.

    I have a sectional couch in my room. It's a small sectional with a recliner on each end. The only drawback to it is the other recliner is about where your chair is and puts you close to the TV and at bad angle, but it isn't my seat so who cares! [​IMG] It'd be cool to have a sectional with recliners in every seat.

    Back to the equipment closet though. You could have the equipment facing inside the room or you could even have it facing in the little hallway that you'll be creating with the new wall so that no equipment would be seen while watching movies. A friend of mine has his kind of like that where nothing is seen and it would add a little expense and trouble because you'd have to worry about getting a repeater for your infrared sensors.
     
  10. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    I guess the question begs to be asked- if I were to set up the room as per Jon W.'s design (which I can't thank him enough for, as it hadn't even occured to me), which type of speaker would be best for my application? Should I keep my OMNI 50's (which I was told have exceptional bookshelf speaker sound) and use those as my rear speakers, or should I return them and try to get OMNI FX speakers- which I read somewhere give equilly goood sound, but help dispurse it so that you create a much wider 'sweet spot' for the viewing pleasure of more then just the person in my recliner.

    I assume i'd put the FX's in the corner, on stands, and the way the speaker is built- it would produce sound aimed at the entire room... whereas the 50's would just directionally aim the sound at the recliner, and leave the people on the sofa and any other chair high-and-dry, right?

    Bah. Thanks guys for the info, this has been very very helpful- at least my concerns now are about sound quality, and not about getting 5.1 sound in general! That's a step, right?
     
  11. Jon W.

    Jon W. Stunt Coordinator

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    Your on your own with the Omni's. I have no experience with them. My room is 12 feet wide and I have direct radiating speakes tuned to the center position of the back wall and it sounds great. I still hear the right channel as good as the closer left channel. It probably helps that my speakers are angled down but I would think that with a cathedral ceiling that you could mount them angled down too. I'll post a pic of mine so you can see what I'm talking about.


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Wow, I hadn't thought about a ceiling corner mount before- that's (again) a great idea. It's a good solution to keep the bookshalves... I was worried about having to return my new investments already!

    I think I'm actually down to the last little bit of research I need to do, to complete my first stage HT! I'm trying to figure out if I want to get a 10" or 12" sub for the room...

    Exact room size:
    16'-11" x 15'-0"
    11'-9(1/2)" cathedral style ceiling
    wood floors

    What size sub do you guys think would be the most I need for HT and the occational music? I'm looking at the SVS PB line, the HSU VTF line, and the Adire Tempest if I DIY- in case the brand matters when it comes to what size to pick.

    Thanks so much! I love this forum... so many of my questions answered and so many great ideas...

    ~Sam
     

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