I need an amp

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by John t., May 8, 2005.

  1. John t.

    John t. Agent

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    I need an amp
    I'm looking for a 3 or 5 channel amp (200w per channel.)
    the price range is about $1,500 ( lower might be better).

    I was looking at outlaw, but some here say that they are entry level (not sure what this means) and that they use cheap electronics.

    I've looked at many brands but they are way too pricey.

    I would buy used but I don't feel confident and don't want to take any chances.

    BTW, my speakers are bright.
     
  2. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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  3. Tim_

    Tim_ Stunt Coordinator

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    A NAD T763 or T773 will suit your need perfectly.
     
  4. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    The T763 & T773 are receivers, not separate amps.
     
  5. Tim_

    Tim_ Stunt Coordinator

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    I was trying to give him a simplier solution and cheaper as well. But like you said the AMP recommendation will be NAD S250 for 5 channel.
     
  6. John t.

    John t. Agent

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    I was thinking of these brands.

    Outlaw 755
    Aragon (2005)
    ATI
    Adcom (GFA-7805)
    Parasound

    I don't know if these are better than the Nads and the previewsly mentioned.

    Any comparisons betwee these?
     
  7. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    I'm not familiar with the Aragon or Adcom and I don't like ATI (personal preference). The Outlaw, Parasound and several others are discussed in the thread I provided a link for.
     
  8. mackie

    mackie Supporting Actor

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    John - outlaw makes quality amps. They have a flat frequency response, low distortion, and plenty of power reserves, so they will do what you need nicely. What others may have been referring to is the debate between all amps sound the same and amps sound different. I believe a number of blind tests have shown people can't tell the difference between amps, but a definitive answer has never been drawn. The key factors to be mindful of are: is the amp being driven into clipping, flat frequency response, distortion. From my understanding some solid state amps are designed to sound differently. I've only heard positive things about outlaw amps, and if they had problems, it would show up on this or other forums like some receivers do. It'll also be hard to beat their customer service.
     
  9. Jason/\J/\G

    Jason/\J/\G Auditioning

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    For about $1400 you can get the ATI 2505 which is 250x5 into 8 ohms or almost 400x5 into 4 ohms. This amp sounds great, its built like a tank and has a 7 year warrenty.
     
  10. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    Go with a NAD S250(5x125w) Its a solid amp with a sweet sound. If you with in Ontario, I would sell you mine. Its just over a year old, but its overkill for my setup(small room).

    Kevin
     
  11. John t.

    John t. Agent

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    Well you see that's my problem. I think I can tell the difference between amps.

    This is what happened:
    Following a threat in another forum, I bought a crown xls 402 pro amp. The reviews for this amp on that threat where great, so instead of buying one of the previous mentioned exotic amps I went with the crown.

    My speakers are naturally bright, and the crown didn't matched very well with them. As soon as I heard them with the crown I saw the difference in sound. They became harsh instead of clear sounding like with my receiver. I now use the crown amp to power one of my DIY subs and it works wonderfully.

    My concern is that I might get the same results with one of these much more expensive exotic amps, the risk is substantially higher. So I just want to know the sound characteristics of each of these amps to see which one matches well with my speakers.

    In my opinion, looking at the specs and the pricing, the Adcom (GFA-7805) is in the lead. At 300watts RMS per channel and a bit less than $1,700 for a B-stock, I think is pretty good. Second are the Aragon and the Outlaw. I don't really know which one is better. But this is just based on specs not how they sound (just need to get a general idea of how each sounds). I haven't taken a look at the Nads or ATI, but I will. Hope I don't get more confused.

    The Outlaw weights about 78lbs, while the Aragon weights about 44lbs. I've seen both of their inside pics, and each employs a totally different design. What actually makes an amp good? Capacitance? transformers?

    Sorry about all the questioning, but I'm really new to separates and I don't want to make a mistake.

    Thanks for all your help so far.
     
  12. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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  13. mackie

    mackie Supporting Actor

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    Give Outlaw a call. They have a 30 day in-home trial period so you can return it if you don't like it. It'll cost shipping though.

    What speakers are you using and did you change anything else in the line when you changed the amps?

    I have a Denon 3803 receiver and use two Outlaw M200 mono blocks to drive my left and right main speakers. I don't listen to music very loudly and I cross my speakers over at 80 hz, so the only real difference in sound is when I play it loud.

    FWIW - awhile back there was a rumor that ATI made the outlaw amps. I believe for a while they were made on the same assembly line, and there's an old thread in his forum that discusses this. NAD has had quality control issues with their receivers in the past. I haven't heard anything about the amps, but I've read numerous threads on this forum about people have trouble with NAD receivers. Parasound and Adcom get a lot of praise around here.
     
  14. Jerry Klawiter

    Jerry Klawiter Screenwriter

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  15. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    John,

    FWIW, none of the amps being discussed in this thread or the one I linked to are what I would consider "exotic". These are well known and generally respected name brands with loyal fans on this and many other forums. If anything, the Crown amp you bought would be somewhat more exotic, because Crown is known more for professional gear, rather than consumer equipment.

    WRT your needs, I would suggest that you stop worrying about rated power levels. Your Klipsch speakers are very efficient, any amp 100 wpc or more will provide more than enough power and truthfully, you probably don't even need that much. My own personal preference is the Sherbourn 5/1500A (200x5), but after looking at your system and hearing what you thought of the Crown amp driving your speakers, I would suggest you give serious condsieration to the NAD S250. NAD amps have a smooth, warm sound that would probably mate very well with your Klipsch speakers. I know several people driving Klipsch with NAD amps and they like the combo very much.

    As for power amp design, you will get a number of answers, but I consider power supply design and capacity the be the most basic foundation for any power amp. This is absolutely critcal IMO, because without a good power supply the rest of the amp is pretty much just a pile of parts. One of the reasons why I like Sherbourn amps is because each channel is completely independent, with its own separate power supply. In essence, the 5/1500A and 5/5210 are 5 monoblocks, just put into a single chassis and sharing a power cord for convenience. But there are plenty of amps with shared power supply designs that are also very good, including the NAD.
     
  16. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    I would think the Rotel 1075 (125w, 5 channel amp) would suit your needs. You could also get the Rotel 1095 (200w) used for around $1200.
     
  17. mackie

    mackie Supporting Actor

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    John - I was just checking out your home theater link. BTW - I used to own a Klipsch - Yamaha setup, so I'm very familiar with the Klipsch sound.

    I have a couple of questions.
    1. How large is the room?
    2. Do you have the hard wood floors covered with a rug or rugs?
    3. Do you have any other curtains or other "soft" things hanging on the walls that will absorb sound?

    Dan is correct when he says the Klipsch are sensitive speakers and can easily be powered by a good 100 watt amp. From what I can tell, you have a room that would be considered "lively," so the speakers are going to get harsh if you really turn the volume up due to sound reflections. In this case, more isn't necessarily better.

    You might consider going with one of the 100 watt amps listed above or try the
     
  18. John t.

    John t. Agent

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    Thanks for all your responses.

    First, I have a couple of questions.

    Where can I find the prices of the NAD 125w, Rotel 125w and Sherbourn receivers you guys mentioned.

    I know that the klipsch are pretty efficient, that was one of the main reasons I bought them. But you see my receiver doesn't put out 100wpc and I have a lot of parties. Even thought the receiver sounds crystal clear at very high volumes, I'm afraid that a peak in the music might damage it or the speakers.

    Another reason I'm looking for a hight powered amp is for headroom, specially for HT. When I tried the crown amp, while it didn't do well with music, I did get substantially better sound during movies. I could hear sounds going right to left, left to right, front to back and back to front a lot clearer. The surrounds became more alive and the overall sound improved a lot.

    mackie,

    1. about 2500 cu.ft
    2. I have hardwood floors and they are not covered and can't be covered for some reasons.
    3. I don't believe my curtains can absorb sound that well.

    I know how the klipsch sound at hight volumes in a lively room. I do notice an increase on the higher frequencies, but as long as they sound clear I don't have a problem with it. I mean my current system can do more than 100dbs crystal clear, and everyone that comes to these parties loves it. Perhaps the High # of people actually dampens the room. I'm just afraid that some day a song might have a peak and damage something. Thats why I need a bit more of headroom.

    I was looking at that Outlaw 100wpc, but from the pics and reviews, I don't think is that strong.
     
  19. Tim_

    Tim_ Stunt Coordinator

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    John,
    For NAD you can find them at www.yawaonline. The listing price on the website is required by the manufacturer. The actual price is usually 10 - 15% lower. Shipping is cheap for Californians. Just ask for David the salesman and also the owner of the store.
     
  20. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    If you are looking to buy new, try Saturday Audio for all things NAD. Another vendor I like is Q Audio. They sell new, used and refurbed NAD and Grado gear on-line.

    For just about anything audio or HT used, AudioGon is my first stop.
     

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