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I Need A Receiver!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve Gazi, Nov 20, 2001.

  1. Steve Gazi

    Steve Gazi Stunt Coordinator

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    I trying to finish up my home theater setup, but I need to choose a receiver. I was looking at the Kenwood VR-507, but it seems that it's a 50/50 call from all of the opinions I've read. The Onkyo that's about the same price only has 55 watts a channel. Is that equal to the Kenwood's 100 watts a channel? I was reading somewhere that Kenwood was rating their's in peak and Onkyo was doing RMS.
     
  2. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    uh, yes. many manufacturers (mostly in the low-end, Joe 6-pack market) overrate their wattages and/or only rate them at 1000 Hz. now better quality receivers, such as Onkyo's line, rate their power from (typically) 20-20,000 Hz.

    the Onkyo is more powerful than the "100 watt" Kenwood, so this is not an issue. i'd go with the 494 over the Kenwood.
     
  3. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    I'd second that notion. As good as everyone says the kenwoods are these days... they still overate the power. My pioneer in the bedroom is the same way. Its supposed to have the same power as my Yammie in the main theater...but my yammie is 2x as strong.... Most your HK's,Yammies,Onkio's,marantz are higher current and thus 55w is actualy louder than thier 100w...and usualy cleaner. Now ...I'm not saying the kenwoods are no good..but between the two...get the onkyo..IMO:b
     
  4. BryanZ

    BryanZ Screenwriter

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    A great deal depends upon your speaker efficiency and how loud you want to listen to them. You have to double the wattage to get a noticeable 3db increase. For example:

    1w - 87db (@ 1 meter, speaker efficiency subject to your speakers)

    2w - 90db

    4w - 93db

    8w - 96db

    16w - 99db

    32w - 102db

    64w - 105db

    Subtract 3 db for every meter you sit away from the speakers (if I'm not mistaken). Best advice I can give you is to not get caught up with wattage. Instead worry about quality. The Onkyo or Denon AVR-1602 or Yamaha RX-V420 will all sound slightly better then the Kenwood. Hard to go wrong here.
     
  5. JerryW

    JerryW Supporting Actor

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    Ditto, go Onkyo. Best mid-fi receivers in the business (IMO).
     
  6. Albert M

    Albert M Stunt Coordinator

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    The VR-507 is a very good receiver. Why not test both out at home. The VR-507 has SRS Circle Surround and the adjustable DPL2 music modes(center width,dimension and panorama). Both are solid in performance for the price.
     
  7. jacek p

    jacek p Agent

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    RE: "I was reading somewhere that Kenwood was rating their's in peak and Onkyo was doing RMS."

    I just purchased Kenwood VR509 and I am very pleased. Contrary to the statements from people who know it all, the specs for VR509 read:

    "100W per channel minimum RMS...at 8 Ohm from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.7% total harmonic distortions..."

    "total harmonic distortions 0.05% (1kHz, 50W, 8 Ohm)"

    The difference in acoustic output from different amps people are hearing may have to do with various efficiencies at 4 Ohms (high Amps will do better), quality of connections with speakers, and varying efficiencies of the speakers (which can vary by 3dB and even more which means 2x more power required or even more for the same effect).

    I hope this helps to clarify common power issues. I wish people stopped bullying Kenwood gear, which yes, has better value, and no, is not "cheap" in quality.

    Cheers,
     
  8. Sean Conklin

    Sean Conklin Screenwriter

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    You tell 'em jacek!
    The previous Kenwood bashers(Yes you Thomas Berg[​IMG] ) sure have some wrong information.
    Kenwood is NOT rated at 1000hz it is in fact 0.7% THD 20-20,000hz! And the 494 I believe is rated from 20-100,000hz anyway.
    Sorry but Kenwood is not in the same league as J6P receivers(what the heck constitutes a J6P receiver anyway?!)such as Technics, cheaper Sony's or the Cheap Pioneers. Notice I said "cheap"! The bottom of the line Pioneers, Technics, Sony's, are plasticy and cheaper looking. And do not come close to the Kenwoods!
     
  9. Steve Gazi

    Steve Gazi Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all of the replies. I'm still undecided. I'm not an audiophile.. yet. This is going to be my first home theater setup, so I don't know if I'd be able to tell the difference or not. I'm just looking for something that will play loud, clear, have some decent features and give me room to expand if need be.
     
  10. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    Steve,

    If your looking at the Kenwoods you may want to look at their VR510 model(THX certified).

    Kevin
     
  11. Norm Strong

    Norm Strong Stunt Coordinator

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    In spite of the remarks above, all manufacturers have to spec their receivers the same way. The FCC requires it. In fact the rules are quite specific, detailing just how power must be measured.

    A manufacturer can derate his receiver if he wishes, but he can't make any statements to suggest that this is the case. I believe (don't quote me on this) that the McIntosh "trick" is now illegal.

    "We conservatively rate our amplifiers at 0.1% THD, although out customers tell us they measure less than .01%"

    This underhanded trick is designed to get all the benefits of selling an amplifier with distortion of .01%, while taking responsibility for only 0.1%. I think it's currently against the law. At least I hope it is.
     
  12. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    Actualy sean...I put the kenwood in the same catagory as my pioneer...from what I have heard side-side at the store! I also put jvc, and lower sony in this line also. I also stated that I was not nocking the quality of the newer kenwoods...but In real world,, a yammie, onkyo,denon,merantz, hk will out perform your kenwood,,, unless you have the newer _high end line...

    :b
     
  13. Vin

    Vin Supporting Actor

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    Steve, I suggest you take Sean's advice and listen to both. I happen to own the VR-507 (this is my second Kenwood, BTW) and I love it. Besides being loaded with features, it performs like a receiver costing much more than the $300 (or less) that it can be had for! [​IMG]
    Good luck,
    Vin
     
  14. Steve Gazi

    Steve Gazi Stunt Coordinator

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    Are the 55 watts from the Onkyo loud?
     
  15. PaulShady

    PaulShady Agent

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    Steve, this is a pretty cool post because I'm in the same boat! I'm about to get my first HT system, and was undecided between the a Kenwood VR509 and the Onkyo DS494. I LOVE the Onkyo 595, but it's just a little more than I wanted to spend. (95% will be used to watch TV/DVD). Although I really like the Onkyo, the 494 doesn't allow you to "delay" to the speakers, or alot of custom speaker setups, which the Kenwoods do. (I'm Really new here so if I'm wrong someone PLEASE correct me.) [​IMG]
    I'm sticking with the Pro Dolby II, and thats why I'm "most likely" going with the Kenwood VR509. It's just under $300 now, which sound nice to me. Its about $125 more for the Onkyo 595. (And for all the people that don't think the $125 is much, I agree, but I've "upped" all my speakers, and DVD player, and I'm still over what I "wanted" to spend)
    And like you Steve, I'm not an Audiophile, I just want a pretty good system for my dollar.
    Good luck,
    Paul
     
  16. Sean Conklin

    Sean Conklin Screenwriter

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  17. Steve Gazi

    Steve Gazi Stunt Coordinator

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    I found the VR-507 for $240 shipped. That's hard to pass up.
     
  18. Sean Conklin

    Sean Conklin Screenwriter

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    That is a good price Steve, it is hard to pass up.

    I wouldn't let our haggling sway you either way, but if you want a great budget receiver the 507 will make you happy...
     
  19. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    here's an easy solution, just pair that kenwood up with a speaker w/ 102db efficiancy!!!!!!!!!
     

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