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I joined the Denon DVD-1600 club today.......

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ReggieW, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Well....

    I finally called and ordered one from 6th avenue, and it shipped a few hours later. I got it at a pretty good price from them to be a well known authorized dealer. I had been sold on the 3800 for months, but just decided that I really couldn't justify paying twice the price at this point. There are still a few things that irk me about the 1600, but having seen one actually perform at the Good Guys, this made my decision to settle with one a little easier. I bought the 1600 to replace my JVC 721bk DVD-A player which was said to be one of the poorest DVD-A players out there in terms of sound quality. The reviews I've read of the 1600 have been just the opposite as it applies to its DVD-A performance, especially in the below 1k class. The CD playback on the 1600 is said to be AT LEAST as good as it is on the Denon 370 changer, which has always been considered a great CD player in the under 500.00 bracket. The lack of a coaxial plug on the 1600 is something I loathe, but can live with since DVD-A/CD playback will be done via the analog outputs, and I have no problem using DTS/DD via the optical cable for general movie watching. Denon only made nominal improvements to the Panasonic RP-56 based video section, but they are welcome. I should note that I currently do not have a television yet capable of benefitting from progressive scan for now, hence, my decision for placing a big priority on audio. Anyway, I'll post my impressions when it arrives, and would like any other owners to chime in on their 1600's and tell me what they think of the audio/video performance, and how it compares to other players they've owned in the past.

    Reg
     
  2. Gary Thomas

    Gary Thomas Second Unit

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    Reggie: Congrats...you're getting a great dvd player.

    I'm pretty picky about the video side & found the Denon to be the best DVD player I've had yet. (I've had about 8 of them!) Using the interlaced mode solved one gripe I have about the 1600...you can only adjust the color setting in the interlaced mode, not in the progressive mode. I have S-video satellite and component video DVD going into the same input on my tv. The color saturation is different on the two sources by about 5 clicks. To change between satellite & progressive scan dvd I need to manually adjust the tv's color setting...which is a bit of a hastle. If I leave it on interlaced mode I can adjust the color setting directly on the Denon.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, congrats. on your purchase. I have no doubt that the '1600 will blow you away on the audio side relative to the 'D721BK. Please do post your impressions of the '1600. I would be curious to hear how it compares to your 'C222ES with CDs.
     
  4. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Gary,
    Thanks for sharing your experiences glad to see there is another happy owner of the 1600.
    Thanks for all your help and advice Keith,
    You will get my impressions a few days after the 1600 arrives. Since they will both be connected via analog to the 1802 with good cables, the comparison should be interesting for CD playback. I just returned from Best Buy and purchased a few pair of the gold tipped acoustic research audio cables for the 1600 and 222es. Would you believe that I had been using flimsy RCA cables all this time with the JVC - as bad as it was on audio already, and the 222es[​IMG] . Anyway, they were really helpful and accomodating at 6th avenue, as I told them I would be looking at the 3803 this Winter to replace my 1802. I really wish the 1600 had a pure direct mode like the DVD-3800, but all of the Denon receivers above the 1802 have this feature, though I understand that the forthcoming 1803 will now have a pure direct feature as well. I have heard that mileage varies with the pure direct mode anyway. I will be upgrading my speakers next month, and will be considering the Axiom M22's for the front stage and surrounds and a VP-150 center. I have heard stellar reviews regarding their performance, and figure that it'll be a major improvement over my JBL NSP-1 setup, which isn't to shabby for HT at all.
    Reg
     
  5. Eric_G

    Eric_G Auditioning

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    I just got my 1600 yesterday (from 6th Ave, of course). What can I say? Awesome. It's matched to a 3802 with both optical and good quality analog cables. I was more interested in audio quality than the video, but I have already been impressed with both. I am using the digital signal for movies. I hooked up the rear analogs to the back channel inputs on the 3802 in order to a better sound field for DVD-A. This setup, with dipolar sides and direct radiating rears, seems like an ideal balance for movie vs. audio use.

    The sound quality of the 1600 is amazing for the price. I was interested in comparing the on board audio processing of the 3802 to the audio side of the 1600. While the 3802 is excellent as far as receivers go, I feel the 1600 is much clearer. It's hands down the best sub-$1000 player for audio I've heard. The video also seems excellent, but I haven't put that through it's paces yet.

    Reggie, you should really enjoy it.

    Eric
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie or Eric,
    What did you guys pay for the '1600 through 6th Ave. Electronics?
    Reggie said:
     
  7. Eric_G

    Eric_G Auditioning

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    $424
     
  8. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Eric, that's not a bad price at all. Thanks.
     
  9. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,

    I am hearing October for the 3803, and you are correct, the 6th avenue rep told me not to expect to get the 3803 for their current asking price of the 3802, at least not for a few months after its debut. I literally paid a dollar more than Eric did for my 1600. It was 438.00 with shipping. The lowest UNAUTHORIZED price I found was 405.00 sans shipping, so I feel I did well. Besides, I have found that many of these shadowy internet dealers seriously overcharge for shipping. It may appear that you're saving money at first, but once you slap your unit into that shopping cart and see the outrageous shipping cost, you then realize that you're not getting such a hot deal after all. BTW, that JVC 258 redbook cd carousel I still have in my matrix is begging for an upgrade. Keith, could you recommend a good one which will hold at least 50 discs. It does not have to be a Denon, though I know they have one which is out of my price range. It will be going via coaxial to the 1802, so I won't be utilizing the DAC in the changer. I will use this for general redbook playback, and now have the space for a mega-changer. I think I remember reading that Sony had a few new good mega-changers priced quite reasonably.

    Reg
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, based on your recent upgrades ('C222ES and '1600), you are getting a taste for sound and build quality beyond what most mass-market megachangers deliver. Frankly, most megachangers out there will be lacking in comparison to your two new toys. That said, I think you will find a Sony ES megachanger to be more than suitable for casual listening. I use two Sony CDP-CX333ES 300-disc units (two-year-old model) for casual listening, and they are great in that role. Note that daisy-chaning two megachangers requires use of the analog outputs, and I use them with a stereo amp that has no digital section, so I am using the DACs in the megachangers. The 'CX333ES doesn't compare to the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000, 'C555ES, or '777ES, so I never use the megachangers for critical listening. Still, setting up the two in all-disc shuffle mode with the "No Delay" feature allows shuffle play between the two units, which is wonderful.
    Since you will be connecting the megachanger to your receiver with a digital cable, you may not be concerned with the quality of the megachanger's DAC or analog output stage. Nevertheless, I would take a look at the Sony CDP-M333ES and 'M555ES 400-disc units rather than the CDP-CX455 or 'CX450. The ES units offer slightly better build quality, gold-plated RCA inputs and outputs, and the five-year ES warranty. The ES models could very well have a better power supply as well, but I am not sure. Also, the ES models give you the better DAC in case you ever want to go with the analog outputs (i.e., if you daisy-chain two units). The 'M333ES and 'M555ES retail for $600 and $700, respectively, but you should be able to get them for less through Oade Bros., J&R Music World, or OneCall. The two models are identical, except that the 'M555ES offers an LCD remote that displays text information and a video output for disc navigation on your TV screen. For more on these models, check www.crutchfield.com . Best of luck!
     
  11. Ken Seeber

    Ken Seeber Supporting Actor

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    I'm in the market for a new DVD player and have been looking at the Onkyo 555. I've been intrigued by Denon, but most of the reviews I've read of their players have been negative.

    Is the 1600 an exception? And if so, how well does Denon's buffer work to eliminate layer changes?

    If this particular model gets better reviews than other Denon models, I may have to pick it up soon (after I finish paying for $1,100 in recent car repairs!).
     
  12. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Ken, I can't speak for how the '1600 handles layer changes, as I don't own one. However, Denon has come fire under here and on similar web site because pricier DVD players like the DVD-2800, '3800, and '9000 show the chroma bug. Those players were designed in-house. The '1600, on the other hand, is based on the Panasonic DVD-RP56, and as such, uses a different chipset than the other Denon players. Like the 'RP56, the '1600 does not show the chroma bug.
     
  13. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Ken,

    It also should be pointed out that many griped about the 3800 and 9000 having the chroma bug at their price points, but since Denon has corrected this problem, the reviews for both units have been stellar. There is a Denon 3800 club thread over at the avsforum.com which has been going strong for a few weeks, and many believe it is the best DVD player they've ever owned bar none. However, the reviews for the 1600 have been stellar since day one from critics and owners, and the only problem I've heeard is a slight case of the so-called flicker bug, which Denon has a firmware fix for if you happen to notice it.

    Keith,

    I know you have the Denon DCM-370 changer, and have heard that it's probably the best redbook carousel under 500.00. If you know a redbook carousel that may be a little better, let me know, but it must also do HCD decoding, which shamefully, Denon left off the 1600.

    Reg
     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, I am still trying to figure out something here. Is this for the same system where you are using the 'C222ES? I feel the 'C222ES is a very good CD player. Is there something you don't like about it? I know it doesn't offer HDCD decoding, but in my opinion, that is not a loss. It's just me, but in my experience, a quality CD player that doesn't offer HDCD decoding can do an excellent job with HDCD-encoded CDs. The quality of the player is far more important than is the HDCD decoding feature. Again, that is just my opinion.

    I have a Denon '370, but I have never felt a need to play HDCD discs on it instead of using my other players. The Sony CDP-CA80ES I once had did a a better job with HDCD discs than the Denon. The 'C555ES does a better job than the '370 as well. In any event, the '370 is a very good CD changer for $250-300, but I question what it will offer you since you already have the 'C222ES.
     
  15. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Thanks Keith,
    Yes, it is for the same system, and you're right, it makes no sense to get a 370 when the 222es will easily match it. I am satisfied with redbook performance on the 222es. I am still leaning toward one of the Sony mega-changers you recommended for general redbook playback, this way I can just place my entire collection in there and be done with it. I guess I'm lazy and hate getting up to change discs.[​IMG]
    I have never known much about HDCD, and was under the impression, probably falsely, that it slightly improved the sound of your discs. As it stands now, I will consider a mega-chager in a few months, but for now, I will be upgrading my speakers and sub. If a huge sound quality difference is to be discerned in my system, it probably will happen after I upgrade the speakers.
    Thanks,
    Reg
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, I think a megachanger would be a smarter purchase than the '370 since you have the 'C222ES. Regarding HDCD, I was giving my experience, but if you really are curious, you might want to give it a go in your system. It's all you! [​IMG]
     
  17. Donnie Seals

    Donnie Seals Agent

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    Ahhh! The 1600 has no coaxial output? Damn, I just bought a coaxial chord ($60) for my old Sony DVD player so I could test my 3802. I bought it specifically FOR the 1600 I was GOING to buy next week! Is there any chance I could use this chord elsewhere?

    And that price for the 1600 at 6ave.com is nice ($440).
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Donnie, the lack of a coaxial digital output on the '1600 is a pet peeve of mine given the price. The '1600 is based on the Panasonic DVD-RP56, which has no coaxial digital output. Denon should have considered infusing a dose of originality into the design of the '1600 before assigning it a $500 price tag.
     
  19. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Donnie,

    I think you will have to simply purchase an optical cable for the 1600 and keep the coaxial cable in case you add another component to your system. I agree with Keith here, as I stated earlier, it was absoultely ridiculous for Denon to release a player at this price point without a coaxial option. Since they added 5.1 inputs in back for DVD-A and two-channel stereo inputs as well, how hard would it have been for them to add a coaxial plug? I don't mean to be conspiratorial, but I feel that Denon gave the 1600 the shaft on a few things, like the lack of HDCD decoding and no coaxial input, in order to maybe entice you to step up to one of their pricer units. I simply find it hard to buy that such a gross oversight could've been made on a unit at the 1600's price point. I didn't purchase the 3800, but still opted for the 1600 instead because I reasoned that optical was fine for DD/DTS movie-watching, and I wouldn't be using digital connections for DVD-A or general CD playback.

    Reg
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, you meant outputs, not inputs. [​IMG] If you compare the back panels of the '1600 and 'RP56, you will notice that they are laid out in an identical fashion. In that vein, another pet peeve of mine is that the 5.1-channel outputs, stereo analog outputs, and component video outputs on the '1600 are not gold-plated. At $500, they should be. That is a by-product of copying the design of the budget 'RP56. None of this, of course, should be construed as a commentary on the audio or video performance of the '1600. I know full well that the '1600 is a highly capable component.
     

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