I have a receiver with a fixed 100 hx crossover and I want an adjustable one instead.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marcus Lewis, May 1, 2002.

  1. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    How can I best achieve this?

    My Rotel RSX-965 manual suggests :



    An alternative configuration for setting up front SMALL speakers with a subwoofer would be to follow the speaker manufacturer’s instructions, wiring the SMALL speakers to the subwoofer’s crossover and then connecting the subwoofer directly to the front speaker connection terminals. In this arrangement, the speakers would be classified as LARGE and the subwoofer setting would be OFF for all surround modes. No information will be lost during playback because the system knows to redirect the bass information to the front LARGE speakers. This configuration may be optimal

    for many users as it can improve the way the bass integrates

    into the listening room and ensure correct satellite speaker operation by using the speaker manufacturer’s own crossovers.

    Sounds good, unfortunately my S1000, 46+combo does not have a crossover ... What external item can I use instead?

    Thanks in advance ... This will likely be my last hurdle before audio bliss ... I hope ...
     
  2. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Hi Marcus,
    If your sub has no adjustable x-over, you might need an Outlaw ICBM or some other external bass mgt module/system. I recently experimented a great deal with the speaker level connections and variable x-overs. I took measurements and did some critical listening at each x-over point. Long story short: I am back to the LFE out and fixed 100hz x-over. It simply gave the flattest response and seemed to just blend better with the mains. I'm steve6387 in this thread.
    My second post in the thread will explain my connection and process better than my first. It's a great experiment. I now have much more confidence my system is giving me the most ACCURATE reproduction it (and the room) is capable of.
    Good Luck,
    --Steve
     
  3. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the heads up steve ... I was considering the ICBM but I have no idea how that would work in my situation.

    Basically I need a recommendation for an external version of the standard crossover that comes with powered subs...

    I'll be sure to peruse the link you sent ...
     
  4. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    I'm pretty surre that the ICBM will do what you want. Take a look at page 8; step 9,in the manual.. I think this is the config you'd be looking for, no?
    --Steve
     
  5. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Steve, thanks for sticking with me on this one ...
    Ok. I see where it says that, but what about the physical connections?
    Take a look at this picture of the back of a Pci:
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/images/sub_pci_amp.jpg
    LR speakers connections in from receiver, LR speakers connections out to speakers ... Easy stuff.
    Compare that to the back of the ICMB which seems to have been specifically geared towards a Pre/pro setup or DVD-a, SCAD player ... Not a plain ole receiver/regular DVD player like mine ... Correct me if I'm wrong ...
     
  6. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    uhh...ok. I see what your saying. Since I don't have the ICBM, I really am not sure how it would work[​IMG]. Hopefully someone with one can chime in here or offer an alternative.
    Good Luck,
    --Steve
     
  7. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Another alternative would be the X20 or X30 products from Paradigm.. Sold seperately or usually with the Paradigm Servo15 sub.
    Paradigm X-Series Control Units
    Couldn't be easier to use.. -gh
     
  8. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Greg, that looks like exactly what I was looking for ... Wish I could see the back of it though!
     
  9. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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    Marcus:

    Going to a lower crossover isn't going to buy you anything. 100 Hz is fine.

    In your case, it would be going backwards. You have a system with far more power than you need on the subwoofers and not enough power your other five speakers. So to go to a lower crossover point and decrease the power demands of the subwoofer while increasing the power demands of the main speakers wouldn't make sense.

    The lowest you would want to go is 80hz and I've got a hundred dollars that says if I play you a bass tone, you can't tell me if it's 80 Hz or 100 hz. Neither can anyone else!

    Take the money you are gonna spend on a crossover and some off-beat configuration and spend it where it will make a difference -- better speakers or a bigger amp.
     
  10. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok Gotcha!

    Boy ... you don't kid around when giving advice, lol

    Better speakers here I come! Woo hoo!
     
  11. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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    Heh, heh. I'd lose the $100 bet, too!

    Years ago when I peddled hi-fi, I used to laugh at all the people I sold Soundcraftsman and MXR equalizers to. They'd come back in and tell me how they boosted 3000 hz or whatever. They didn't anymore know what 3000 hz sounded like than the man in the moon. Just taking wild stabs in the dark.

    I'd bet that same $100 that 99 out of 100 of those equalizers turned perfectly good hi-fi systems into pure garbage. But, hey, what'ya gonna do? You know how people are when they get a hankerin' to fiddle and diddle.

    I learned a big lesson closing a big high-end sale to an amazingly insecure paranoid wanna-be audiophile. This guy was listening to his Bose 901's and Sansui-dreck receiver that he'd picked up in the Army, but he's been reading the Absolute Sound and was determined to have the "best" and had the bank account to make it happen.

    The hand wringing went on for months and he finally settled on Fulton Premier speakers driven with a 350 watt per channel Audio Reasearch amplfier ($$$$$) and the matching top of the line tube preamp.

    The speakers were designed by a true lunatic named Bob Fulton (the inventor of battery-cable sized $500 speaker wire, BTW -- a length of his Fulton Gold wire weighed more than mid-size car and you had to wrestle it to the ground like a python). The Premiers were Bill Johnson's (the founder of Audio Research) favorite speakers and we'd picked up the line (which meant enduring Bob Fulton's sermons about the "colors" of music) after hearing them at the Audio Research factory. These speakers were the size of a double-wide trailer and played dead flat to about 8 Hz. Truly breathtaking, truly whacko loudspeakers at something like $6000 a pair 20 years ago.

    So, anyway, the day for the big delivery rolled around and a couple of us loaded up the vans and took off to set up his system. He had a classic low-ceiling rectangular box living room typical of 3-bedroom ranch houses built in the 1950s. The speakers just totally overwhelmed his room. It was really ridiculous, but, hey, what hi-fi salesman is gonna turn down a guy that has to have the best and wants to spend $20,000?

    We got it all set up and tweaked and put on the Thelma Houston "I Got the Music in Me" Sheffield Labs record on his new Linn Sondek turntable with top of the line Linn tonearm and moving coil cartridge. I swear to god, the bass from those speakers in that room made my heart stop beating. It was difficult to catch your breath. My buddies and I (who lived good hifi 24/7 and all had our Linn Isobariks and Magneplanar Timpanis and yadda yadda) were just grinning at each other. It was THAT ridiculous how much bass (and everything else) these speakers were reproducing and how good it sounded using these monster insane speakers as near-field monitors in this tiny room. I mean, we were basically diving for cover. It was like body-surfing the Bonzai Pipeline. It was not only louder than any hifi you've ever heard, but this stuff was seriously sweet sounding gear.

    The song ends and we ask him how he likes his new hi-fi, figuring he'd be messin' his pants. This joker looks over with a neurotically paranoid somber expression on his face and asks (dead seriously): I think we should try the speakers in the corners, and see if they'll put out some more bass....

    We dutifully shoved 'em smack dab in the corners flush against the walls, choked back the tears at killing the sound of this great system, saw that he was happy with the "improvement", and took off to spend the commission.... Moral of the story...never underestimate a fool and his hi-fi. This guy wouldn't have known a good sounding hi-fi if it had bit him on the petunia. He just wanted a $20,000 boom-box and the security of knowing that he owned the best because the Absolute Sound said so.

    Personally, I am strong believer that a little common sense goes a long way when it comes to audio gear. But, some people don't want to hear it.
     
  12. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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  13. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Well Steve .. it's all relative ... Audio bliss for me is a system I'm happy with that I'll be proud to demo to friends ...
    I don't think I'm too far off at this point ... But that's just me. [​IMG]
    Harold, thanks for the story and the advice ... I'll be sharing both with my buds, lol
     
  14. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Marcus, my point was only that upgraditis is an addiction. I don't know what your mains are, but you have no reason not to be happy with what you have handling < 100Hz right now.

    --Steve
     
  15. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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    Gotcha Steve ...
     

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