I guess I have to build a Tumult after all!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Pete Mazz, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    Well, after finally watching LOTR last nite, I am now forced to build a new sub.[​IMG] That soundtrack has really insane levels of really low bass. I'd like to see a waterfall plot of some of those scenes. My dual Tempests have cruised thru The Haunting, TS2, U571 and all the rest, no pro-blemo. Along comes LOTR and Bang, actually bang, bang, bang.....[​IMG]
    So, if this is the future of rediculous bass in movies (likely, knowing Hollywood) I am forced to design and build a new Tumult-uous sub.....which isn't such a bad thing! [​IMG]
    Pete
     
  2. Adam Bluhm

    Adam Bluhm Supporting Actor

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    Here's a simple question.

    If dual tempests can't hold up, will my future DIY Shiva sonosub be up to the test?
     
  3. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    You could also turn down the subwoofer output on a DVD with LFE too hot for most any subwoofer played at high volume levels.

    The idea is to have balance in your HT system. This is not a car audio competition where the highest recorded SPL wins the prize.
     
  4. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

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    Adam, it all depends on what levels you want to listen at.

    If it is tuned low enough, you should be able to watch the movies without bottoming. Granted you aren't trying to listen to levels the sub just isn't capable of.
     
  5. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I just watched LOTR with my BPD 1803 and didn't bottom it once, with 800w.. It was insane levels of bass, that disc sounds as good as most DTS discs Ive heard. Can't wait to build my Tumult as well..

    Craig
     
  6. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    This is a extremly hot db wise DVD. I threw it in and set the Pre to it's normal 15db below ref and went to the kitchen to grab us a couple cold ones.
    Good god I thought the house was going to come apart. I ran to the HT room and dialed down the sub output level on the receiver 3 clicks and still it was unbelivable! Then reached for the volume control and started cranking it down. At 20 below ref it sounded as loud as TPM, Titian-AE, and U571. This thing is db hot and the on going bass threw the movie is muchoo major. No need to be hot on the subs for this one.
    I normaly am 3db or so hot on the subs, but this movie needs no help to feed my hunger for bass. The guys that mastered this thing obviously intended it to be this way. Yes, maybe more of the new Drama & Action releases will be put down this way.
    Who knows!
    A bad thing, I think not, just us movie the big bass heads can now cali to proper Avia standards and be very happy without running their sub/subs hot.
    Tom V has run some quick stuff in a thread over in the speaker area and confirms what all have been talking about. Hot hot hot movie with lotsa bass threw the whole movie. Also he gave some quick freq data that will eventualy be up on site.
    Is this newest constant bass monster movie a reason to build a big bad sub to better your old?,,,, Maybe, but cali the sub for this one is a must. But as mentioned here, even some of the DIY monster subs can cry on this one when pushing the envelope.
    And most DIY's like to push! [​IMG]
    Start buliding them enclosers for that New Tumult Driver boys.....
    And congrates Dave on your new driver you lucky boy! [​IMG]
     
  7. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Like others have said, if you are sane [​IMG] you should have no problems.
    That disk was loud. I normally watch at 10dB under reference but I had to turn that one down to 15dB under reference. At that level my single Tempest didn't complain once (movie was still really loud and gave me a few over 110dB peaks).
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Dustin

    Is that just the spl reading "straight" off the peeks, or did you add the 3-4db that Tom V recommends when looking at the Rat Shack spl meter (analog) for the movie peeks while playing???

    Edit:
    Just Curious.....
     
  9. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    I don't know...
    My rig is calibrated. I usually watch a movie at -13 dB. I did have to turn down the overall volume for this one, but the bass levels are INSANE! What the hell are the folks that have mediocre subs doing, beside watching smoke rings coming from their subs.[​IMG]
    I just think it's rediculous to think that we'd have to recalibrate our subs on certain movies because some heavy handed soundtrack may blow them up.;(
    Besides, isn't that the whole idea of a reference level, calibration, dialog normalization and the rest of Dolby's standards? So much for being able to design a system with enough overhead, I guess.
    I guess hollywood is going the route of the recording industry that can't seem to produce a CD anymore unless it's recorded hot. Or the TV manufacturers that have their sets set to torch mode with red push because some marketing BS says it makes them sell better, accuracy be damned.
    OK, I feel better now.....[​IMG]
    Pete
     
  10. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Oops. I took some peak measurement at 10dB below reference the next day. I watched the whole movie at 15dB under reference. I'll have to read the SPL meter's manual again and figure out how to make it remember the loudest sound it received. Then do this opening scene again at -15 and -10 from reference.

    Anyways, the peak at the -10 was striaght off the meter. I don't know exactly how high it was as the meter was set on the 90-110 range, so it just pegged the meter.
     
  11. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    The only time I heard my single Tempest wince was when Sauron's finger hits the dirt. Other than shaking the foundation, I hear a wwwhhhooommmpp sound. My room is really big though and it opens to the entire house. Guess I need to make a second Tempest.
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Well I just watched the opening battle and the bridge of kazakdun scenes again at 10dB below reference (all speakers at 75dB on Avia tones and the sub would fluctuate between 72dB and 78dB when I was calibrating it). With my meter set on the 100-120dB range instead of the 90-110dB range like I had before. It's rather comfortable to listen to with kleenex in your ears too :p)

    I figured out how to get my digital ratshack spl meter to keep track of the loudest sound it recorded during each scene.

    Opening scene it registered a 115dB (so depending on what the frequency of that sound was could be 3-5dB higher than that).

    kasakdun bridge scene it registered 117dB and again depending on frequency that caused it could be 3-5dB higher than that.

    I think the sub could handle more volume, but I'm sure my poor Onkyo 575 is at its limits driving my JBL Studio speakers at this level. If I had a better amp I might try 5dB under reference. Don't think my Tempest could do reference though.
     
  13. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    But I thought "reference" for DD was 105dB for speakers and 115dB for the LFE? If you got those SPLs at -10 dB, what the hell is going on?

    BTW, Hey Pat, I just realized this topic is probably out of place here. Feel free to kill it as it seems there is a similar post somewhere else.

    Pete
     
  14. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Well, if the loudest sounds are centered at 40hz. That explains part of it as I have a bit of a room mode centered around 40hz.

    And that's 105 from each of the 5 speakers and 115 from the lfe. But if your speakers are set to small, then they say the sub needs to be capable of 121dB (to match what the output from 5 full range speakers and an lfe would be capable of down low).

    And it also demonstrates just how loud this disc was recorded at. At full reference calibrated level, I wouldn't be surprised if it went past dolbies specs.
     
  15. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    I'm gonna buy triple X when it comes out. I saw it in a THX theater with JBL drivers and the avalanche scene had insane levels of bass.

    LOTR still beats it though... I got peaks of about 104+ 4db during the goblin drum scene. I was sort of disappointed because I watched it at reference level and it was pretty darn loud.

    I do enjoy watching it at about 10db below reference though because the sound is much louder than any DVD i've listened to before.
     
  16. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    Let's say, as an example, that 3 of the speakers are putting out 105 dB, and the sub is pushing 115 dB. Add those levels together and you're only around 116 dB.

    Regardless, we don't need rocket science to know this movie was done differently. It's loud. DN is supposedly at -31 dB, which equates to DTS levels, but this soundtrack sounds louder than any DTS track I've heard. Hey, maybe that's the clue. Dolby got tired of folks saying DTS was a better compression scheme cause it "sounds better" (4 dB louder).

    So maybe now we'll have a "who's louder war" between Dolby and DTS! In the meantime, better watch the volume levels before a movie starts. I've read of popped speakers already from this one.

    Pete
     
  17. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    But, the crucial question, do you think it's got good dynamic range, or does it sound like it's compressed (just loud with little head room for a wider dynamic range)?

    Anyone can crank up the recording level, the art of it is to produce an audio track with good dynamics.
     
  18. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    I think it's basically an excellent soundtrack, extreme dynamics, I think. With DN at -31, it gives an extra 4 dB of "top end" for better dynamics of high volume content. But there seems to be more going on than just that. Yes, it has high volumes of really low freq stuff, but overall it seems to be recorded "hot".
    My gripe is that we spend considerable time, money and effort to get our systems to reproduce "reference" sound, albeit at lower listening levels usually, and along comes this soundtrack that seems to throw the rules out. If, in fact, it is recorded at a DN of -31, then something else was done to produce the high volume levels, I think.
    Of course I could be wrong. [​IMG]
    Pete
     
  19. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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