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I cant believe this. Intellectual property frivolty

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Charles J P, Sep 24, 2002.

  1. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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  2. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    I disagree, most respectfully. John Cage was noted through his long career as a composer who challenged our preconceptions as to what constituted music. One of those intellectual challenges was silence. And how the lack of sound played a part in music.

    Although a good many (perhaps most) disagreed with Cage’s experiments during (and after) his lifetime, few musicians doubted the seriousness of his intent.

    While you (and others) may think it easy to dismiss silence as music that can be afforded the protection of copyright, Cage would certainly have disagreed. The protection of an intellectual idea (which this most certainly is, even though it seems quite silly) is one of the points of copyrights. It is not the point of copyrights to decide which ideas and concepts have merit.
     
  3. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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    This got a lot of coverage in the UK a while back. The problem began because Batt gave Cage a credit in the writing of his "silence". That's the problem - that gains Cage performance royalties etc from the album. When an attempt was made to collect them by Cage's publisher, this whole stupid case sprung up as Batt's publisher basically said "nope". They were wrong to do so.

    If you give someone cocredit on your album, how can you /not/ expect the system to give them a share of the royalties for that 'song'?
     
  4. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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    It's not a song, it's silence. This is insane.

    So, because someone has silent track in their album, I can't do the same without paying them royalties? That's bullshit. If I want to include a silent track on an album of mine, I should be able to. This isn't an artistic work deserving of a copyright. It's silence.

    To illustrate how utterly absurd this is, I'm going to copyright the following intellectual work titled, "Blank space in an HTF posting." Here, now, is my presentation:











    ("Blank space in an HTF posting." (c)2002 Ryan P. Wright, all rights reserved.)

    Don't try to copy this. I was the first; nobody has done it before. It is my intellectual idea. Any infringers will be slapped with a lawsuit demanding $Millions.

    Still think these people can (or should be able to) copyright silence?
     
  5. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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  6. Josh Lowe

    Josh Lowe Screenwriter

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    How pretentious does one have to be to sit there and actually declare that recorded silence is music?

    Jesus, get a grip and read The Emperor's New Clothes.
     
  7. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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  8. TheoGB

    TheoGB Screenwriter

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    Hang on Brian - is that true?

    As I read it, I thought he'd co-credited Cage but then the estate had claimed that Batt couldn't have ANY part of the royalties as he hadn't added anything to the piece.

    Otherwise you're right it's stupid, but that's the first I've heard of it being that way round.
     
  9. Brian W. Ralston

    Brian W. Ralston Supporting Actor

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    Ryan Said....
     
  10. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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  11. Jeffrey Noel

    Jeffrey Noel Screenwriter

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    I think it's absolutely ridiculous that you can call silence music. The article states that Batt plagiarized, however co-crediting Cage wouldn't be plagiarizing, would it? Isn't this just like citing? It's not like Batt said the silence was his 'idea.'
     
  12. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    The "example" of an empty HTF post is silly. Internet messageboards are not private property. If you post, "Pan & Scam sucks!" and I post the same thing a month later, it isn't "stealing", either.

     
  13. Paul Richardson

    Paul Richardson Second Unit

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    By co-crediting somebody you are using their name to help sell your product. If I release a film that is written by "Paul Richardson and Steven Spielberg," Mr. Spielberg is entitled to a share of the royalties, regardless of whether he wrote any of my script or not.
     
  14. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    Actually, Cage's track wasn't ALL silent... it was performed live for the first time in 1952, and there are sounds everywhere. So it wasn't the silence he was performing, it was the sounds during the silence.
    Here is an NPR story about the song, "4:33", from their series of the most significant American musical works of the 20th century that they ran in 2000. It's an interesting piece (a little over 8 minutes long).
    http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20000508.atc.08.ram
    NPR also had an interview with Mr Batt back in July, when the copyright story broke:
    http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20020702.atc.19.ram
    /Mike
     
  15. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    This is nuts and not the type of reaction I expected. I just dont see how you can even copywrite a song where nothing happens. I hearby copywrite a movie called "Blackness" I will collect billions in damages from Sony, TDK, etc. from all of their "blank" tapes that they are selling that contain my work!
     
  16. John Watson

    John Watson Screenwriter

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    Funny, I thought Simon and Garfunkel musta already copyrited The Sounds of Silence
    [​IMG]
     
  17. BrianB

    BrianB Producer

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  18. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    But Brian, he meant "Clint Cage", not "John Cage"... [​IMG]
     
  19. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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  20. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    Hmm, well, it just seems like this kind of law suit would not have happened 25 years ago. People take advantage of the system, but thats really another issue.
     

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