I am heart broken and in need of help with HD- TV

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Luis M, Oct 30, 2001.

  1. Luis M

    Luis M Second Unit

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    I was as close as you can get to buying a new HD widescreen tv, I love movies and have a large dvd collection, all enhanced for WS TV, but my brother got his tv first and being the hometheater nut of the family went with my tools to set up the 65" Mitsubishi beauty with my "Video essentials" dvd and the "Radio Shack" SLP meter for his new Denon receiver.
    I must admit that I love the color of the set and to watch a great movie in its proper aspect ratio is a sight to be hold, but there is always something that bothers me when I watch a dvd on this tv and it is some sort of grain(Like a light rain effect) that is always present and moving around and on top of objects that does not show on my own 50" analog projection tv, I watch my tv from 12 feet and my brothers' is located at about 15 feet from the viewing area. I have also watched this digital artifacts on other digital displays in store showrooms and to tell you the truth, I DON'T LIKE IT ONE BIT, while it is true that with HD material the problem is greatly reduced, is also true that 80% of the time I will be watching dvds on the set I buy. So, Should I stick with my square 50" box that looks very smooth (not blury)? or should I go with a brightly color HD set that gives me the GRAINS?. My brother owns a 65" Mitsubishi below the Diamond series. Maybe some HD tvs handle dvd movies better than others. I need help.
     
  2. Bill_M

    Bill_M Agent

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    Does your brother have a progressive DVD player? If not, one might fix your concerns. You didn't even mention watching HD.
     
  3. Luis M

    Luis M Second Unit

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    Bill, as I said in HD the set performs very well but like my brother I wacth 80% dvd movies, and "NO" my brother does not have a progressive dvd player which the tv may benefit from, but it is not connected with Svhs, instead we connected it with the better quality components cable I believe they are called (three color ones)
    Bill, in your own experience, Do you have this problem with your set up? Maybe the viewing distance makes the difference.
     
  4. Juan_R

    Juan_R Supporting Actor

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    Luis,
    I have a Toshiba 65H80 with a very good Sony DVD player (not progressive) and I dont have this problem, or not that I can tell. I am also a freak about picture quality. I sit about 13' away. My Toshiba also has the 3.2 pull down so that might be helping it as well. Another thing to consider is which wide picture mode he was using? On my Toshiba I use full for 2.35 DVD's and Theater Wide 1 for 1.85. I dont remember what the Mits screen modes are but I know if you use the wrong one then that can cause the grain effect. Take a DVD to the store with you and have them play it for you on several sets. I did this and that is how I ended up with my set. Good luck on what ever you decide.
     
  5. Richard_Huntington

    Richard_Huntington Stunt Coordinator

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    What is your TV's sharpness at? Put it at or below 10% if it is higher than that. A 480p DVD player would greatly improve the picture quality on such a large set, that's for sure.
    ------------------
    "My wife actually prefers widescreen"
     
  6. Luis M

    Luis M Second Unit

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    Richard the sharpnnes control is very low, it took me countless hours to convince my brother that there is no other way to go. I guess like Juan said, a progressive dvd player is needed here. The disc that I have noticed this effect the most with was The phantom mannace that I saw this past sunday. to be honest I have only seen like five movies in it, but I am so picky when it comes to picture quality that it is hard for me to spend $3.500 for something that won't make me entirely happy. maybe I am over reacting a little bit. I will do some serious watching this weekend. Thanks for all the help. If anything else is added to this topic it will be welcome. Luis.
     
  7. Rik P

    Rik P Stunt Coordinator

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    Luis,
    I recently bought a 55" Mits (WS55809) and i know exactly what your talking about. When i got my TV installed all I had was my old Sony DVPS330 DVD player and it SUCKED even using S-Video conection (Grain City) But then.........
    I soon discovered progressive scan. I went a bought a Panasonic RP56 WOW!! Night and Day difference. I quickly fell in love with my TV and never looked back. I cant stress enough how much more the picture improved no visible scan lines and a cinema like picture. Of course your results may vary I guess you'll have to try it out and see for your self.
    But I think its a must with a HD-RPTV. IMHO.
    GOOD LUCK
    PS. I recently took back the Panasonic and went with the JVC XV-S65 I found the Picture Quality a little more to my taste (nothing wrong with the Panasonic).
     
  8. MickB

    MickB Agent

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    My new Pioneer SD582 blows away my old Pioneer 4:3 set with DVD's. Maybe you should look at the Pioneer sets instead of Mitsubishi. I have a Toshiba SD6200 Progressive scan DVD player and satellite for HDTV. I bought the Avis disc to set up the Tv and after 9 months I had it ISF calibrated and the picture is awesome!!
     
  9. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    When I was shopping for my set, I narrowed my choices down to the Mits 55907, or the Pioneer Elite 510. The Mits seemed to show a bit more of the noise/grain you describe, and ultimately, that drove me to the Elite. The Mits line seemed to have a very noisy line doubler.
    Now, the grain as you mention it could be any number of things. In some cases, it's in the source material, but you can't see it on an analog set, since the resolving power of the TV isn't as good as HD. Test the set with some super clean transfers (Toy Story 2, for instance) and see if you still see it. With my 510, I can see the details of the Toy Story animation (texture of Woody's shirt, stitching, the rubber "skin" of some of the toys, freckles on faces, etc), but NO noise, whatsoever. Michael Mann's Heat, though, shows quite a bit of grain- he wanted it that way, I guess.
    I'd highly recommend you take a look at the Pioneer 533. It's got last year's Elite line doubler.
    Todd
    [Edited last by Todd Hochard on October 30, 2001 at 11:15 PM]
     
  10. Luis M

    Luis M Second Unit

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    thank you guys, It seems to me that the way to go is to buy a progressive scan dvd. Months ago I searched prices on them and they were pretty expensive, all $600.00 and up. Latetly I have seen them pretty cheap. Are these cheap players as good as the most expensive ones- performance wise- besides the ovious built and quality parts? If any come to mind that has received good reviews, please let me know. Luis.
     
  11. Richard_Huntington

    Richard_Huntington Stunt Coordinator

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    A co-worker/friend of mine bought a new 480p JVC player that has a chip called "Mediamatics" for less than $300 and the picture quality on his Mitsubishi 16X9 HDTV was terrific. It blew away his old Toshiba SD2700. Night and day. Makes me want to get a HDTV and 480p player...
    But the wife. Ohhhh the wife. [​IMG]
    ------------------
    "My wife actually prefers widescreen"
     
  12. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    Luis - price seems to be irrelevant for progressive players. There's cheap ones WAY better than expensive ones, and there's problematic cheap ones also. The Toshiba 3750, the Panasonic RP56 and RP91, the Sony NS700D and a couple of JVC units are all apparently great, although each with different features and trade-offs. You can read the other zillion threads on here about them. For me, I'm waiting to try the new Toshiba 4700 and 5700 models which are just becoming available now.
    Richard - about your wife... time to get HER an expensive hobby. My wife owns and rides a horse so she can't complain about ANY of my HT (or other hobby) purchases!
    So we're broke but happy... haha. Just kidding.
    [Edited last by Paul Higginbottom on October 31, 2001 at 07:53 PM]
     
  13. Bill_M

    Bill_M Agent

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    Luis M,
    My set doesn't have this problem with a non progressive DVD player. It also doesn't show it on any NTSC source. The line doublers in sets vary. The same set as mine the next model year exhibited what you are talking about on all NTSC sources. You may want to check out different sets to compare line doublers if you are going to be watching a lot of NTSC. When one uses a progressive DVD player it bypasses the sets line doubler. However I have read that some sets are now converting all signals to 960i which may cause problems with a 480p progressive DVD player.
    [Edited last by Bill_M on November 01, 2001 at 08:07 PM]
     
  14. JasG

    JasG Auditioning

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    Luis,
    It sounds as if you are describing what the avs forum debates have termed 'crawlies'.
    Most have now agreed tha it is an artifact of MPEG compression on some DVDs which is uncovered by hi-res displays and/or deinterlacers/progressive players.
    I consider it just like seeing film grain when I go to a theater, sometimes I notice it, sometimes I don't.
     

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