I am FED up.. I need MORE power!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett DiMichele, Dec 20, 2001.

  1. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

    Sep 30, 2001
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    I can't be the only guy who is experiancing this..

    I run AR AR9 towers for mains and they are powered

    from my Onkyo TX-DS787 which is suposed to put out

    100 true watts per channel @ 8 Ohms.. And it very

    well may put out 100 watts per channel at 8 Ohms but

    100 watts must not be NEARLY enough because every time

    I crank the volume up (and I mean WAY up) the dang 787

    kicks off and I have to power it back on.

    It seems to me like the heavy bass is what is causes the

    phenominon (and that would only make sense as it's the big

    drivers that hog all the power trying to move all that air)

    I am getting sick of kicking the receiver off I need seperate

    amps badly..

    From what I figgure, the AR5 which is the *exact* same

    tower as the AR9 only powered, incorperated a Sunfire

    175 watt RMS amp that it's sole purpose is to drive 1

    10" sub.. So I am trying to power that same 10" sub plus

    2 Mag Alloy 5.25 mids and a 1" Titanium Tweet all from a

    meesly 100 watts and it just AIN'T happenin!

    It's time I invest in 4 monoblocks!

    Anyone else have a similar problem?
  2. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

    May 23, 1999
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    Unfortunately, that's the problem with some receivers today, it says it puts out 100 per channel into 8 ohms for all 5 channels like Onkyo, Kenwood, Technics etc. But without High current Transformerss that the better receivers have you'll never get the power it's suppose to be rated for. A long time ago we had access to a sight that actually brokedown the list by receiver and it's true power, ie., Kenwood 209 was rated at 100 watts per channel but was really rated in the mid 50s.
  3. JoeDeM

    JoeDeM Stunt Coordinator

    Dec 12, 2001
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    Barrie, Ontario
    Real Name:
    The electrical engineers where I work refer to it as Sony Watts. If you get any of the higher end products, you will notice that they are quite heavy, (read large transformers)anyways, try looking at the Bryston 9B THX(my favorite), it's designed like monoblocks, but in one package (modular), it's rated at 120watts x 5 into 8 Ohms or 200 x 5 watts into 4 Ohms.
    I don't work for them, I just love their stuff.
  4. mark lilley

    mark lilley Auditioning

    Dec 20, 2001
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    I hear ya. I upgraded to rxv800 from a rxv850 last year.

    The first thing i noticed was about a 50 % reduction in power. Even though the 800 is listed at 5x100 and the 850

    was 3x80 @ 2x30 ! I didn't expect this from the same manufacturer. Now when i'm watching a movie i have the volume level at about 75%. I'm now considering an adcom

    gfa-7500 (or something similar) but then I'm afraid i'll

    want to upgrade to a better pre-amp/processor. Or I might

    just get a good 2 channel amp for music only. Either way

    I wish I had done more homework in the first place.

    By the way this is a really good site/forum.

  5. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

    Feb 11, 2001
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    Yes, it sounds like the bass material is what is driving the 787 too much; that's often the case. I get the impression from your post that you do not have a separate subwoofer. If you do or can borrow someone else's, you can invoke the 787 crossover to verify that the 787 is straining from the low freqs when an externally powered sub is not present.

  6. BenS

    BenS Stunt Coordinator

    Jan 9, 2001
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  7. Mark Leiter

    Mark Leiter Second Unit

    Aug 9, 1999
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    Also be carful, when I was still using my Yanaha to power my B&W's I used to over-drive my mains as well and I ended up blowing the mids in both.

    If you really like listening to your music or HT that loud then I strongly recomend puting money aside for a seperate amp.

    You won't be disapointed.
  8. Zbigniew

    Zbigniew Stunt Coordinator

    Jan 8, 2000
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    I moved my 2 Paradigm 9 from Sony DE-545 to Denon-3300 to Parasound 1500HCA ( [email protected], [email protected]) and difference was significant in each case - faster & tighter bass, more articulation in sound.

    Your options are as follow:

    1) Get a sub, and change mains/surrounds to small; that should be best in long run. Yo will not "waste" extension in your mains - most likely you have 1st order crossover at 80Hz, so your speakers will still be getting some tones - but at much lower levels.

    2) Get external amp, at least for mains; something along lines of 2x200 should be a good idea; examples are Parasound 1500 HCA, Bryston 4B, Anthem MCA-2, there are also models from Rotel, ATI, and a long line of other amps.

    3) You may consider getting a used 5 channel amp - like Parasound 2205, Anthem MCA-5, and then use 4 channels to bi-amp your speakers (if they can be bi-amped), and use 5th channel for center...

    In order to test if that will help you, change all speakers to small, and tell processor that you do have a sub. This way you will reroute LFE+lower 2 octaves to non-existent sub, so you can check if your receiver will still trip. That shoul help you to decide between options 1, 2 and 3.

    There is never too much disc space, CPU speed and power in your amps...

  9. Andy Anderson

    Andy Anderson Second Unit

    Dec 11, 2001
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    This is off-topic...
    Jerome--cool (Unicron) quote, but the first word is not "once"--it's "for a time..." I'm a TF freak.
  10. Rick_L

    Rick_L Extra

    Nov 20, 2000
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    BenS, you are thinking of the 989. The 787 is rated at 100 watts

  11. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

    Sep 30, 2001
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    Fellas the 787 IS a High Current design and it does use a

    heavy transformer (the Receiver weighs in at nearly 50 pounds)

    But I guess it all comes down to "what do you expect from

    one box?" I don't think there are many Receivers out there

    that will push my AR9's the way I want them to be pushed.

    My AR9's are hellatiously sensitive, please realize than

    when I say LOUD I am talking beyond refrence. For Home Theater

    use I will never go beyond REF and I won't have problems

    with cutting out on bass heavy material (eventualy I will go

    with a sub) but I always want to keep my subs in the mains

    for music that's just my prefrence.

    I am considering buying 4 AudioSource Monoblock AMP 5.3's

    and I am looking for comments on these Monoblocks. The specs

    look superb with a 0.1 THD a 200 Dampening Factor a 95 DB S/N

    and 250 watts RMS @ 4 Ohm (150 @ 8 Ohm)

    My goal is to feed the Mids/Highs at least 100 watts and to

    feed the low end at least 150. That should drive the subs

    with authority (they drive prety hard as is..)

    I will only use these amps for 2 Channel ONLY not for H/T

    what so ever. I plan on building a Bottlehead Forplay Tube

    LineStage PreAmp and connecting the S.S amps directly to the

    Pre Amp then directly to a high quality source unit. Bypassing

    the Receiver totaly for everything except perhaps FM..
  12. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

    Aug 22, 2001
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    Are the Ar's 4 ohms? I ran into a problem with a client using that receiver with some 4 ohm Axiom speakers. Same thing; it kept shutting down. Axiom graciously, at no charge, manufactured a matching box to raise the impedance and that solved the problem.
  13. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

    Sep 30, 2001
    Likes Received:

    They are nominaly 8 Ohms but when you have hard dynamic

    peaks that impedance can swing as low as 1 or 2 ohms and

    there in lies the problem. Every time the Receiver kicks

    out it's when there is a heavy dynamic loading on the Receiver.

    EG: Heavy Bass Intrustion or loud overatures and such.

    Like the others have suggested above if I set the mains to

    small I am 100% positive the problem will dissapear (I will

    try that tomorrow and I thank those who recommended doing so)

    But that only will confirm my beleif and not remedy the problem.

    The way I see it I have 3 options.. A: A 5 Channel Amp

    B: 2 Stereo Amps C: 4 Monoblocks.

    I feel that you get more amp for the money with Monoblocks

    due to thier massive size when compared to most mid level

    5 channel integrated's which are usualy small in comparison

    to Monoblocks. I have the space so I might as well use 4

    Block amps and I see no need to amp my center or surrounds

    independantly of the Receiver.

    And if I do feel the need at a later date to externaly amp

    all channels I can always buy a 5 channel amp and use it

    solely for H/T and multichannel music.

    Yes/ No ?

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