HYPOTHETICAL situation: what if dvd-audio lost the format war?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by LanceJ, Jan 9, 2003.

  1. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    As the old saying goes "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst". I don't really expect any answers to my subject line question; I'm basically just rambling because I'm bored.
    If the big music companies stopped producing dvd-audios, what would happen?
    insert answer here:............................................:craz y:
    I'm not sure myself because dvd-audio isn't owned by anyone......right? I mean, Minnetonka sells dvd-audio authoring software, Pro-Tools & others sell the hardware, so I don't think it can just drop off the map totally. Couldn't small labels buy this stuff themselves and produce dvd-audios?
    LJ
     
  2. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    What format war?[​IMG] DVD-A trying to get past vinyl's 1% marketshare? [​IMG]
     
  3. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    If record companies stopped producing DVD-Audio discs, I'd expect multichannel music to die. SACDs would probably go back to stereo only. Why? Less work for the record companies = higher profit margins. Plus, the audiophile crowd would still pay the premium for high-res stereo only.

    The main two reasons I bought into DVD-Audio was
    1) Multichannel mixes were there even in the first releases
    2) Sony's track record with winning format wars outright was not strong. They establish new formats but don't dominate when there is competition.

    -JNS
     
  4. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  5. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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  6. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    To the question of the thread [for a change of pace];
    Play my DVD-A's on DVD w/DVD-A.

    People still play 8-Tracks, for goodness sake!

    If it die's, it die's!

    What would you expect people too do?
    Throw everything DVD-A away?
     
  7. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  8. Marc Colella

    Marc Colella Cinematographer

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    If DVD-A loses the format war, that'll only mean that SACD will have a bigger take in the niche audiophile market.

    It won't mean anything for most people since DVD-A and SACD mean nothing to them.

    CD will continue to be the format of choice for music.
     
  9. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  10. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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    I do not see DVD-A losing a format war as long as Warner continues to support the format. From their efforts though, it seems they have accepted the fact that DVD-A will never be a mainstream format and are not about to go on a marketing blitz or just throw money around. Case in point is Dark Side of the Moon. Warner/DVD Forum could have easily thrown money Floyd's way to do the album on DVD-A. Instead Sony stepped up to the plate and gave Floyd the money they needed. Depending on longterm sales of the SACD, this could either be a great investment or a big waste of money. Sony is making an effort from this standpoint which can't be said of the supporters of DVD-A.

    At the least DVD-A will just hang around and be a format that appeals to both audiophiles and multi-channel music fans. Honestly I do not see either SACD or DVD-A taking any sort of mainstream hold, nor neither losing until a bigger and better audio format is offered.

    A good sign is seeing the increased number of universal players coming on the market for lower prices. When more universal players proliferate the market, there will no longer be a format war, because everyone will be able to play both. The biggest problem with both of these formats is the fact that they were not around at DVDs initial launch.

    So far the two formats have been options on the more expensive players mainstream consumers tend to steer away from. If you want proof of this, just visit the audio/video sources here and witness the number of posts looking for information on super cheap players such as those from Cyberhome (these are people considered enthusiasts). As time goes on, the prices are sure to go down even farther on SACD/DVD-A universal players, but it is going to be a few more years until we see increased proliferation and if in fact increased proliferation equates to increased software sales.

    J
     
  11. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  12. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin is correct.
    When Sony/Philips couldn't get DSD added onto the WG-4 specification, they dropped out. So then why wasn't it added? Frankly, at the time DSD was an immature technology. In some respects, it still is. Direct Stream Transfer wasn't finalized, so there was no way to deliver multi-channel, which was a goal of WG-4.
    Also, consider that solutions for manipulating a DSD bitstream are still fairly new. Take a look at the solutions offering Bass Management for SACD in the digital domain. Pioneer has to do a conversion if they want to do Bass Management. Philips (coinventor of DSD) doesn't offer Bass Management on any of their players available at this time. I haven't asked about the DV-963SA, I see Philips tomorrow at their main booth. Sony has said that they are using DSD natively, but others have said otherwise. Who's right? Without seeing the algorithms, no one really knows.
    Onkyo/Integra and Marantz are based on the Pioneer DV-47A, but I haven't had a chance to query them on the specifics of their implementations.
    I haven't queried Denon on the details of their Universal solution either, but they might be using the new ESS solution, which can extract DVD-V, DVD-A, CD, and SACD from a single chip. If this is the case, adding SACD was free except for licensing.
    I also haven't talked to Yamaha about their universal solution, but my earlier source on the product was incorrect on its architecture. Somehow, I doubt they'll let me tear it apart on the show floor [​IMG]
    BTW, Pioneer is now launching car DVD-Audio units but I haven't had a chance to sit in the BMW SUV that has the installation. So, DVD-A is in portables, the car, and PC via Creative Labs' Audigy 2.
    OTOH, on many computer DVD-ROM drives (including the 2 I have) SACD (hybrid or not) will fail to read.
    Personally, based on what I'm seeing, DVD-A isn't going to fail, nor is SACD.
    I'm at the Alexis Park all day today, and have to visit a number of manufacturers over here.
    If anybody wants to say Hi to me (especially Lee), it would be nice to put a face with all the words on the screen.
    On the infrastructure side, I don't recall which chip maker (Burr-Brown, Cirrus Logic or Analog Devices), but one of them released a DAC (24bit/192K) which is capable of delivering 22-bit resolution. So in the time that we've had DVD-A to market, chips have gone from 20 to 21 to 22 bit resolution. I somehow doubt they'll be able to get much beyond this, but I've been pleasantly surprised by performance improvements already shown.
    Regards,
     
  13. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    I don't think either format is in immediate jeopardy of going away in the short-term. I think DVD-A can still survive as a format of choice of independents and musicians with what is available for the PC and home studio. It can be a very convenient relatively inexpensive way for bands to make audio/video demos and try to get air play on local channels.
     
  14. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

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    I would bet if DVDA died, the discs would eventually become collector items because many of them do sound great.

    I didn't mind buying a good DVDA player (RP91) because I needed a good video player, the DVDA aspect is a big bonus.

    If DVDA dies, I still have a great DVD player plus many discs that sound out-of-this-world.

    I can see the discs becoming very expensive on Ebay one day if that as to occur.

    Hopefully SACD keeps Multi-Channel on their discs.
     

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