Hydrosonic subwoofer II review

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by JohnRuggiero, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. JohnRuggiero

    JohnRuggiero Agent

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    With the vinyl water bladders bass sounds travel faster in water then in air. Since we are about 90% water the sound resonsates in us. Meaning that you feel the bass even before you hear it. So it can go down as low as 5 or 6 hz, you won't hear that tone since the human ear can't hear that low but you will still feel it. the bass is very defined, you can feel and hear the bass string as it is being picked. So the bass is much faster, more defined and you feel it alot more because of the water. I got the IBS-12 which cost me 1368.00 but that was a special deal because that is the one that goes in theaters and they normally do not make it, so I got a special deal. They make the IBS-8 for 595.00 and IBS-10 for 795.00. the phone # for them is
    1-800-718-5716. thank John The best way I can describe it is that the bass feels "thick" and you feel about about Chest high. [​IMG]
     
  2. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    So you actually wear the bladder like a vest or something, with the sub putting energy directly into the bladder?

    Man, I had assumed that it needed air like normal speakers to couple the energy to your ears and body. This is a revolutionary product!
     
  3. JohnRuggiero

    JohnRuggiero Agent

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    no the water bladders are coupled internally to the 123 inch speaker, so you not only get sound waves thru te iar you get sound waves thru the water which resonates in your body so you hear and feel the sound thru your body. It is like vibrating from the inside from your music and movies.
     
  4. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    You get sound waves not only through the air, but through the water? But wait... if you're not in direct contact with the water bladder, then doesn't it have to transmit sound to you through the air? So how do you "feel" the sound through the water then?

    I thought it might be cool if you had like a water vest with flexible tubing running back to your subwoofer or something. [​IMG]
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Is it similar to the tactical body sensations you feel when playing lower bass frequency's at Higher spl's, but with this product they are more easily transfered and at a much "Lower spl", even into lower subsonic area (20Hz down)....?

    Might that be a fair statement John???

    I think many find this type sub somewhat "amusing" and I belive thats unfair when one has never heard it.

    Their subs are proven to definitely work and have contracts for their Commercial subs with many theaters around the world.

    I do find it some what interesting and certainly won't bash it, make little pokes, etc, a sub product I've never experienced..

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  6. Karl_Luph

    Karl_Luph Supporting Actor

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    I came across these I believe one day when I was searching on google for subwoofers. If they sound and hit as hard as these reviews we'll be hearing more about them in the future. Now I want to hear how they sound in person. One thing's for sure, these subs are water friendly .
     
  7. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Do you have a chance to grab some SPL numbers or the frequency response? I'm curious.
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    There is another Hydro sub thread here in speaks and subs... He put some U571 movie numbers up and a few freq numbers "separately" also.
    You might check that out...
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    This sounds more like a commercial, then a review.
     
  10. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Do you have to use distilled water?
     
  11. MattD

    MattD Stunt Coordinator

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  12. JohnRuggiero

    JohnRuggiero Agent

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    That is exactly true Geoff, you get higher bass impact at lower SPL's. You all have to remember that the impact of this subwoofer is the resonance that it creats "IN" your body. The vinyl water bladder transmit the bass signals much faster then air, and because you are 90% water you will resonance at the same frequency that the vinyl water bladders are vibrating. So you feel the bass even before you hear it. The impact of this sub can't really be measured fully by an SPL since the power of the impact is not as much from the sound pressure as it is from the resonance it creates in you. You get the sound pressure but in addition you get the impact on your body. These subwoofer are in theaters and are getting wonderful reviews. they are just starting to get into the home theater area. They are great guys to work with with wonderful consumer service. They are just starting out now in the home theater area like SVS did a few years ago. All I can say is that this is the most amazing subwoofer I have ever experianced and it just gets better every day.
    Thanks John
     
  13. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    This whole thing seems so....Lirpa-ish....
     
  14. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    But now I'm really confused. [​IMG]

     
  15. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    OK, now for a serious post. [​IMG]

    Despite what the manufacturer might claim, it seems highly unlikely that water would "couple" with the enclosure and resonate (they make it sound like a passive radiator type of effect or something). Water tends to be a decent damping agent provided it is allowed to move freely (such as in a flexible bladder) and has a slosh frequency outside the range you want to damp. IMO, such a bladder might be very effective at damping sympathetic enclosure vibrations, yielding a very inert and resonance free enclosure (a good thing IMO).

    So, truth be told, I wouldn't doubt that a water bladder might not have some positive impact on sound quality if done properly... but for reasons ass-backwards from what they are claiming.
     
  16. JohnRuggiero

    JohnRuggiero Agent

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    The SRT/IBS HS Subwoofer series is a low frequency range system that brings increased sound vibrations, as well as, increased tactile feel to auditoriums and theaters. The ultra low frequency response improves cinema sound quality by providing high definition sound vibration that is felt by the audience. All bass speakers give you the noise, but not always the sound. It takes a special effort to capture these sounds. In other words, a special dedication to incorporate these sounds into a production. But no matter how much effort has been put into the sound, a bass speaker has been putting out the same old sound; until now.

    Current bass speaker technology allows the listener to feel the sound by blasting the volume at uncomfortable audio levels. For the first time, listeners can hear and "Feel The Sound"™ and sensations associated with explosions, gun fire, jet blasts and even the beauty of classical music without the discomfort of excessive sound pressure levels.

    The Patented HS series offer the only bass speakers utilizing patented (US Patent#5,281,777) Hydro-Acoustic technology and revolutionary cabinet design featuring: high definition delivery of bass sound, greatly decreased peripheral sound levels, extended delivery of low end sound below 10 Hz (vibratory response). The HS series helps the film industry solve three of the biggest problems including; amplification of low end frequencies, sound resulting in excessive SPL, amplification of problematic, large, low end sound waves created, and bleed through to adjacent theatres.

    The HS series (HydroSonic® systems) use a water filled bladder that acts as a natural resonator, boosting bass response and producing vibration. The audience is able to "Feel The Sound" without having to increase theater volume to unpleasant levels.

    The HS10 Model includes two 10 inch subwoofer drivers coupled with water that is specifically designed for smaller theaters seating up to 250 people. The HS-12 Model includes two 12 inch subwoofer drivers coupled with water that has been designed to comfortably handle audiences of up to 425 people. The HS-15 Model includes two 15 inch subwoofers/drivers coupled with water that is specifically designed for large theaters seating 350 people or more . All models feature a flat black finish that prevent unwanted reflection.

    COMPONENTS AND CONSTRUCTION

    Technical Specifications


    The HS series is a low frequency range loudspeaker system for theatre, cinema, and auditorium use. Designed for cinema application, the HS series optimizes the behind the screen application and is configured to provide the audience with precision low frequency vibration through the use of both controlled low frequency audio sound and ultra low frequency resonance.

    The LP enclosure houses two vented band pass subwoofers that are coupled with two strong and durable vinyl water bladders.

    The cabinets are constructed of white birch or maple and their strong internal bracing provides for the unwanted panel resonance as a result of acoustical propagation of sound waves behind and near the screen. The systems are coated with a durable protective flat black finish.

    Data
    Nominal Impedance
    HS10 3.5 Ohm
    HS12 3.5 Ohm
    HS15 3.5 Ohm
    Minimum Impedance
    HS10 1.3 Ohm
    HS12 1.3 Ohm
    HS15 1.3 Ohm
    Frequency Response
    HS10 26-125 Hz
    HS12 31-125 Hz
    HS15 28-125 Hz
    Sensitivity
    HS10 99dB
    HS and LP 12 96dB
    HS and LP 15 96dB
    Low Pass Crossover
    HS10 80 Hz
    HS12 80 Hz
    HS15 80 Hz
    Driver Complement
    HS10 Two 10" Drivers
    HS12 Two 12" Drivers
    HS15 Two 15" Drivers
    Power Handling
    HS10 600 Watts RMS X 800 Watts Peak
    HS12 600 Watts RMS X 1200 Watts Peak
    HS15 600 Watts RMS X 1200 Watts Peak
    Dimensions/Weight
    Weight Height Width
    Depth
    HS 10 80lbs(E) 172lbs (F) 36 ½" 17" X 17"
    HS 12 114lbs(E) 240lbs(F) 46" 19 1/4" X 18 3/4"
    HS 15 225lbs(E) 465lbs(F) 49" 23 3/4" X 23 ½"
    Water
    HS10 5.75 Gal each, 11.5 Gal total
    HS12 7.75 Gal each, 15.5 Gal total
    HS15 15 Gal each, 30 Gal total

    Designed and manufactured by Sound Related Technologies, Inc., 2680 Production Road, Suite 101, Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454. For technical support call (800)718-5716 or FAX (757) 498-3231. E-mail [email protected]. Web http://www.hydrosonic.com. Specifications are subject to change without notice. SRT is not responsible for any other claims made regarding it's products. Copyright 2000. All rights reserved.
     
  17. JohnRuggiero

    JohnRuggiero Agent

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    Sound Related Technologies, Inc. (SRT) of Virginia Beach, Virginia has developed an entirely new sound reproduction concept that represents a paradigm shift from conventional recording and reproduction techniques. Hydrosonic entertainment systems use a water filled bladder that acts as a natural resonating amplifier; boosting bass response and producing vibration. The user is able to Feel the Sound and vibrations without having to increase volume to an unpleasant level. Imagine being able to experience the sensations of jet engines, rocket blasts, explosions, machine gun fire, the rotor percussion of a helicopter, or even the seismic effects of an earthquake or avalanche through the Hydrosonic ® Interactive Bass Sound systems "IBS" reproduce controlled frequencies between 10 to 80 Hz. These frequencies are known as infrasound. Your body can feel them extremely well since it is composed primarily of water. Hydrosonic ® entertainment systems accurately reproduce sound and vibration by not only moving air, but also primarily through moving mass (solid materials such as wall floors, and especially our bodies). In short, your body becomes resonant with vibration allowing you to truly Feel The Sound.



    What makes this system unique? Water! Opposing subwoofers produce sound pressure (within and enclosure) that act on the water inducing sound vibrations on the fluid. This vibration readily couples to the substrate on which the enclosure rests. Thus, a sinusoidal input to the SRT/IBS system will produce a sound pressure in air, as well as, a vibratory displacement in liquid/solid at the same driving frequencies with little or no distortion. This hydro-acoustic coupling enables the SRT/IBS system to extend its frequency response, and increases resolution, into the low and infrasonic ranges as clearly illustrated by the following measurements:
     
  18. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Sounds like a tactile transducer attached to a subwoofer. Do the water filled bladders tune the enclosure. I guess the added mass of the water would act as a piston if it acts like a passive radiator. If they could mass it enough it could "move" or vibrate the surroundings more than traditonal ported system. If it does act like a PR system then the water is probably just a way to mass the PR's at the same time. Kind of gimmicky but an easy way to adjust the tunes of a PR. Isn't 1ml=1gram?
     
  19. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    OK, marketing is marketing as we're all aware, but half of that stuff posted above is nonsense.

    To begin with, the stated website hydrosonic.com yields several annoying popup ads, a script asking if I want to change my homepage, and a site that is certainly not about subwoofers.

    That aside, there are some rather odd claims being made in this thread. First, they claim infrasonic frequency reproduction starting at 10Hz, but their FR specs show rather limited extension (-3dB point??). Second, they appear to have tuned the bladder to actually resonate in the sub's frequency range, and have opposing drivers such that they purposefully don't use the water to damp enclosure vibrations (rather, their goal is the opposite), which is going to result in a relatively high Q sub. The bladder receives energy from the sound pressure inside the box, and returns it as it resonates. That's going to cause ringing in the driver, but it will store and release energy into the floor that the sub is sitting on. However, that vibration will necessarily lag behind the vibration of the subwoofer cone itself. Unless the sound transmission time difference in air vs. the floor is enough to make up for that lag, you certainly won't feel the bass before you hear it.

    Their comments about coupling the sub to water filled humans is marketspeak and completely irrelevant.

    My over-riding thought about this technology is 'what if the sub is sitting on a concrete floor?' You've lost any potential benefit you might have gained in the coupling, as the actual structure of the building is the only possible way that this sub could "couple" to walls, people, or anything else more efficiently than a traditional sub. Or what if it's sitting on a sand filled platform? Do you have to design your floor system to be flexible just so your sub can shake it a little? Why not just add a BK for that effect? What is the Q of this sub? What makes this storage and release of energy any different than a passive radiator, other than the fact that a PR can couple to the air as well as the enclosure? Why didn't they use a substance a lot more compressible than water, that is able to more easily store and return energy to/from the air in the enclosure, or more able to turn pressure in the box into motion?

    Again, I could see where water could be employed for a useful benefit to sub design... but it seems that they haven't taken that approach at all.
     

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