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3D Blu-ray Review Hugo Blu-Ray 3D Review (1 Viewer)

GregK

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MattH. said:
I actually read an interview with James Cameron today about his conversion of Titanic, and he claimed that the amount of 3D depth was carefully controlled and deliberately limited with Avatar. He said that the amount of depth was cranked up for the new 3D Titanic to make the lavishness of the ship more demonstrative.
I've read that as well, as he has said something to that effect previously. I know they often (artifically) reduced the original I/A in post for AVATAR, and wish we could seen what some of that looked like before hand. I'm betting AVATAR II will have 3-D depth closer to that of some of the Golden Age (1950s) 3-D titles, based on what Cameron has said so far.
There is one big variable with HUGO and ghosting on certain sets which I had mentioned previously: HUGO is often presented with primary subject matter in negative parallax. This means most of the subject material is placed outside of the stereo 3-D window. This also means it is misconverged (double imaged) most of the time.
So let's say your 3DTV has some mild but noticable ghosting. If most of the primary subject matter is placed at the stereo window (ie: converged / no double image) then said ghosting is not as noticable, and therefore is less objectionable. AVATAR and many of the recent 3-D features tend to have most of the primary subject matter placed at the stereo window. The same goes for many of the 1950s 3-D titles.
But when the primary subject matter is placed outside of the stereo window (and therefore misconverged/double imaged) .. and is done so throughout most of the feature, then it does become more of an issue with 3DTVs which have higher crosstalk (ghosting). But for for a set with excellent L/R 3-D cancellation, it is a non-issue.
I can provide some sample images highlighting convergence differences, should anyone be interested.
 

cafink

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I think those images would be very interesting, Greg.
 

Felix Martinez

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I just think that Hugo, as with all blu-ray 3D titles, is a YMMV situation as far as crosstalk. I find it interesting that Avatar 3D, Toy Story 1-3, Beauty and The Beast, Lion King, Rio, Tron: Legacy and Pirates 4 have little to no ghosting on my setup.

Update: Just read GregK's post - that makes sense, thx.
 

RolandL

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I would like to see those images too. I have a Sony model 55HX810 3D LED tv and I don't have a lot of problems with ghosting/crosstalk. But, LED's are noted to have more problems with it than Plasma or DLP. So, I don't want to buy Hugo if I'm going to have problems.
 

Edwin-S

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I must not be too sensitive to the problem of ghosting or double imaging, because I really didn't notice any real problems when I watched this film. There was only one instance where I noticed a pronounced double image. It was a shot where a full moon almost filled the screen.
Edit: I should have mentioned that I used a Panasonic Viera P65VT30 to watch this film. Also, it is probably the best 3D live action film I have seen. The use of 3D was more effective than AVATAR and the story was better, even though I do not really agree with the premise that human beings have any particular purpose on this planet. If we do have any purpose it is only to serve as "gun fodder".
 

GregK

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Here are two comparisons which highlight convergence differences. In relation to the HUGO thread, this discussion of convergence relates how it can cause ghosting in some 3DTVs with less than ideal L/R cancellation.
First off, a quick breakdown on some terms:
"Convergence" refers to where subject matter is placed in the stereo window.
"Parallax" relates to how much horizontal disparity (3-D) is in a given image, and is normally determined by the original left/right camera interaxial (I/A) spacing.
For this example, I checked & cleared with 3DFA's Bob Furmanek the use of this image from the 1966 3-D sci-fi feature THE BUBBLE. (To date, these images are HTF exclusives!) The BUBBLE has a wide parallax, the therefore has a deep and engaging 3-D image. It is a perfect candidate for highlighting convergence differences, and how this can indirectly relate with ghosting on certain 3DTVs. While the BUBBLE was originally shown in polarized 3-D, and is being mastered for 3-D Bluray, these images are presented in red/cyan anaglyph to (a) highlight the convergence differences and (b) allow HTF members to see a 3-D display method which has some slight but well known ghosting issues. This is NOT how the finished product will be shown in 3-D.
Anaglyph 3-D is what I call a very fragile format, as many jpeg compression methods and resizing/recompression programs will further degrade the colors, and in turn increases the anaglyph "ghosting". In this rare case - it is not a bad thing, as we are talking about ghosting and convergence.
With that being said, any HTF members who have some red/cyan anaglyph specs available: Take a peek! And make sure the red lens is over the left eye.
7b5e1b69_bb_1A_Converged_at_Stereo_Window.png

The image above is presented with the primary subject matter converged at the stereo window, at zero parallax. When wearing anaglyph 3-D glasses, if one sees any ghosting, it is the foreground or background subject matter and not on the primary subject matter. So ghosting in this case is easier to miss or ignore. As mentioned previously, many current and Golden Age 3-D features are composed in this manner.
607b6e9e_bb1b__Converged_at_infinity.png

The above image is presented with the primary subject matter converged outside of the stereo window, with zero parallax set near infinity. When wearing anaglyph specs, if one sees ghosting, it will obviously be harder to ignore. In this case, the red lens/left eye view can have some slight ghosting with the white shirt.
Most 3DTVs will very likely not have ghosting as bad as the anaglyph format. And the amount of ghosting or measurable crosstalk in a 3DTV will vary from model to model.
In summary: I really hope more display manufactures pay closer attention to the L/R crosstalk (ghosting) specifications. This in turn helps a given display handle a wider variety of 3-D scenarios, including wider parallax and convergence styles. HUGO is an excellent example.
 

Bob Furmanek

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Nice work on the anaglyph conversion, Greg.
Has this image sufficiently demonstrated the differences with conversion and parallax?
 

Todd Erwin

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For those living in Orange County, CA, and want to see Hugo in 3D and do not have 3D capability at home, the Starplex Woodbridge Cinemas in Irvine is still screening this wonderful film in RealD. The best part - admission is $4.00 ($3.00 on Tuesdays), and will be playing at least until 4/19. According to their Facebook page, the film has been their #2 box office draw consistently since it opened there on 3/16!
 

RolandL

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GregK said:
Here are two comparisons which highlight convergence differences. In relation to the HUGO thread, this discussion of convergence relates how it can cause ghosting in some 3DTVs with less than ideal L/R cancellation.
First off, a quick breakdown on some terms:
"Convergence" refers to where subject matter is placed in the stereo window.
"Parallax" relates to how much horizontal disparity (3-D) is in a given image, and is normally determined by the original left/right camera interaxial (I/A) spacing.
For this example, I checked & cleared with 3DFA's Bob Furmanek the use of this image from the 1966 3-D sci-fi feature THE BUBBLE. (To date, these images are HTF exclusives!) The BUBBLE has a wide parallax, the therefore has a deep and engaging 3-D image. It is a perfect candidate for highlighting convergence differences, and how this can indirectly relate with ghosting on certain 3DTVs. While the BUBBLE was originally shown in polarized 3-D, and is being mastered for 3-D Bluray, these images are presented in red/cyan anaglyph to (a) highlight the convergence differences and (b) allow HTF members to see a 3-D display method which has some slight but well known ghosting issues. This is NOT how the finished product will be shown in 3-D.
Anaglyph 3-D is what I call a very fragile format, as many jpeg compression methods and resizing/recompression programs will further degrade the colors, and in turn increases the anaglyph "ghosting". In this rare case - it is not a bad thing, as we are talking about ghosting and convergence.
With that being said, any HTF members who have some red/cyan anaglyph specs available: Take a peek! And make sure the red lens is over the left eye.
7b5e1b69_bb_1A_Converged_at_Stereo_Window.png

The image above is presented with the primary subject matter converged at the stereo window, at zero parallax. When wearing anaglyph 3-D glasses, if one sees any ghosting, it is the foreground or background subject matter and not on the primary subject matter. So ghosting in this case is easier to miss or ignore. As mentioned previously, many current and Golden Age 3-D features are composed in this manner.
607b6e9e_bb1b__Converged_at_infinity.png

The above image is presented with the primary subject matter converged outside of the stereo window, with zero parallax set near infinity. When wearing anaglyph specs, if one sees ghosting, it will obviously be harder to ignore. In this case, the red lens/left eye view can have some slight ghosting with the white shirt.
Most 3DTVs will very likely not have ghosting as bad as the anaglyph format. And the amount of ghosting or measurable crosstalk in a 3DTV will vary from model to model.
In summary: I really hope more display manufactures pay closer attention to the L/R crosstalk (ghosting) specifications. This in turn helps a given display handle a wider variety of 3-D scenarios, including wider parallax and convergence styles. HUGO is an excellent example.
Greg,
What front projectors would you recommend for the least crosstalk? I had read reviews on other web sites and DLP projectors seem to have the least crosstalk. But in the reviews of specific models, one web site will say it has very little and another a lot.
 

GregK

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RolandL said:
What front projectors would you recommend for the least crosstalk? I had read reviews on other web sites and DLP projectors seem to have the least crosstalk. But in the reviews of specific models, one web site will say it has very little and another a lot.
As long as you are not prone to the DLP "rainbow" effect, any HDMI 1.4 certified 3-D DLP projector should surpass consumer LCD & plasma displays from a cancellation standpoint. Some DLP projectors can be configured to use up to 3 different types of 3D glasses: IR, RF, and DLP Link. The type of glasses used and fine tuning of said glasses can play a factor in visible "ghosting". For example, some RF 3D glasses can be fine tuned. If they are not, ghosting may be the result.
LCD and plasma displays can also deal with issues with 3D glasses and ghosting, but also tend to have incomplete cancellation within the display itself. Most often due to a slower decay rate of the display device, which is not an issue with DLP's micro-mirror technology.
 
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Felix Martinez said:
Woah. I'm seeing a lot of ghosting/cross-talk and never noticed that before.  And I have Avatar 3D, the Toy Story trilogy, Beauty and The Beast, Lion King, Rio, Tron: Legacy and never really noticed it before.  Have a Panny 3D Plasma and blu-ray player.
Checked and ruled out ambient lighting, made sure the plasma screen was clean and unsmudged.  Glasses fully charged.  Very odd...
It appears the ghosting appears on fringing high contrast areas.  My plasma is using the James Cameron THX 3D setting parameters he published when the Panasonic Avatar 3D bundle came out.
Loved the film.
Update: just picked up Pirates 4. The 3D convergence was perfect. Zero crosstalk - or actually I noticed ONE shot, that of a crescent moon, where the sliver was slightly doubled.  I believe something is amiss with the 3D Hugo disc.
Hi Felix,
I have the same situation here. Panny 65GT30 with BD320 blu-ray player. Hugo shows crosstalk throughout. Also on my brother's setup.
Dana
 

JohnS

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Just watched this for the first time and in 3D.
Such an amazing film.
Loved the 3D. Great effects and atmosphere.
I also loved seeing dust particles flying in the air.
This is my favorite 3D bluray so far.
I did get a little crosstalk.
 

Fastfwd

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Ok, so, it’s not just me. I love the movie, but I too was getting the ‘crosstalk’ effect a bit much. It wasn’t overwhelming, but it would have been more enjoyable without it certainly. Avatar did this some too. I picked up Prometheus yesterday and it had virtually zero ‘crosstalk.’
 

RolandL

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Fastfwd said:
Ok, so, it’s not just me. I love the movie, but I too was getting the ‘crosstalk’ effect a bit much. It wasn’t overwhelming, but it would have been more enjoyable without it certainly. Avatar did this some too. I picked up Prometheus yesterday and it had virtually zero ‘crosstalk.’
It also depends on your display. I see a lot more crosstalk on my Sony KDL55NX810 TV than on the Panasonic PTAE8000 front projector.
 

Tino

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I have a Sony ex723 and Hugo has lots of crosstalk on my display.
 

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