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3D Blu-ray Review Hugo Blu-Ray 3D Review (1 Viewer)

TravisR

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CrashGordon said:
Star Wars in 3D was such a disappointment and I hear that Titanic is going to be worse.
I agree that The Phantom Menace didn't look particularly good in 3-D but the 3-D in the trailer for Titanic looks very good to me. Obviously, I can't say one way or the other without seeing the full movie but the trailer makes me much more hopeful for Titanic than the 3-D trailer for The Phantom Menace did.
 

Matt Hough

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I just watched this movie this evening. Besides being an enchanting film celebrating the love of movies like none other, this film is a masterpiece of direction. I cannot understand how Martin Scorsese wasn't honored with Best Director by his own guild (DGA) even if the Oscars were charmed by The Artist.

The 3D was also magisterial. I saw only a couple of small instances of crosstalk in a couple of extreme close-ups, but in general the 3D couldn't have been more effectively utilized in telling this story.

Superb movie in every way.
 

GregK

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Hi Paul,
Andrew Woods published an excellent paper on these two terms and their useage in regards to stereoscopics:
http://cmst.curtin.edu.au/local/docs/pubs/2011-14-woods-crosstalk_and_ghosting.pdf
In the general stereoscopic literature and the lay media, the terms ‘crosstalk’ and ‘ghosting’ have often been used
interchangeably
Lenny Lipton (the inventor of theatrical Real-D) had this take on it:
“Crosstalk. Incomplete isolation of the left and right image channels so that one leaks (leakage) or bleeds into the other. Looks like a double exposure. Crosstalk is a physical entity and can be objectively measured, whereas ghosting is a subjective term.” and “Ghosting. The perception of crosstalk is called ghosting.”
My personal take on this is when discussing how much ghosting a given display exhibits, and is also measurable with test patterns, then it can also be defined as crosstalk. But a case of something like excessive parrallax, where a given person cannot visually fuse the left and right images, I would call that perceived ghosting, as it is not a crosstalk issue at all.
 

GregK

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RolandL said:
The good side of the TV's with passive glasses is they are light, inexpensive and you can tilt your head and still get 3D. The bad side is you are only getting half the resolution of LED LCD TV's with electronic glasses.
Hi Roland,
It is true the effective resolution per eye of current passive displays is half from a vertical standpoint, while horizontal resolution remains full. How noticeable (if noticeable) this is depends on some variables. http://i.bfads.net/u/resolution_chart.png
Or for further reading on resolution, screen size, and viewing distances, this is a nice somewhat related read with great sample images http://www.thebestplasmatv.com/guides/720p-vs-1080p/
So the deciding factors in my book are in the following order:
(a) how big of a display do you want? (b) how far back will viewers be from the display? (c) how many people on average will be watching, meaning- how much $$ is needed for 3D glasses? (d) Are you sensitive to occasional temporal (aka: phasing) artifacts which is standard with active displays? (e) will you be watching the display straight on, or due to room or viewing constraints, be looking slightly up or down at the display?
For the record, I have both active and passive 3-D set-ups, and appreciate the pros and cons of each system.
 

GregK

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I was finally able to watch HUGO last night. Truly a wonderful story which did an excellent job tying in a gripping fictional story of an isolated boy with numerous hardships, the love and appreciation of the film art, and the often forgotten but fascinating life of Georges Méliès.
The use of 3-D by Scorsese is well integrated into the feature. Like director Jack Arnold with IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE and CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, HUGO utilizes a number of 3-D off-screen effects very naturally, without having them come across as blatant gimmicks. As far as ghosting goes, I was caught up in the feature and wasn't looking for it, and only noticed one instance (watching on the Vizio) near the end of the feature. I'm sure it will be ghost free when later viewed via DLP projection.
When I peeked over my polarized spectacles a couple of times during the feature, or inadvertently triggered an on-screen display like volume up or down, I noticed one other notable aspect of HUGO. Like many of the slightly older IMAX 3-D features, HUGO often places most of the subject matter outside of the stereo window (negative parallax), with the background roughly being at the stereo window. With the primary subject matter and the obvious focus of attention being misconverged most of the time, any display related ghosting with high contrast material will be more apparent. HUGO didn't always follow this approach, but from what I noticed on my first viewing, it was frequent. I'll have to watch this one again soon.
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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GregK said:
My personal take on this is when discussing how much ghosting a given display exhibits, and is also measurable with test patterns, then it can also be defined as crosstalk. But a case of something like excessive parrallax, where a given person cannot visually fuse the left and right images, I would call that perceived ghosting, as it is not a crosstalk issue at all.
Hi GregK,
Thanks for the link to the published paper. The nature of ghosting abstracts and crosstalk have been particularly hard for me to understand and I find your take on the subject to be very helpful.
GregK said:
When I peeked over my polarized spectacles a couple of times during the feature, or inadvertently triggered an on-screen display like volume up or down, I noticed one other notable aspect of HUGO. Like many of the slightly older IMAX 3-D features, HUGO often places most of the subject matter outside of the stereo window (negative parallax), with the background roughly being at the stereo window. With the primary subject matter and the obvious focus of attention being misconverged most of the time, any display related ghosting with high contrast material will be more apparent. HUGO didn't always follow this approach, but from what I noticed on my first viewing, it was frequent. I'll have to watch this one again soon.
An interesting observation I'm finding when using an HMD is that the 3D planes show depth differently than when two images are visible on one screen. Images don't stand out in front of the screen, behind the screen or anywhere with reference. I'm guessing it's because there is no external landmarks like theater chairs or home furniture giving the eyes reference points. You just feel you are really there viewing the action.
Paul
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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GregK said:
I was finally able to watch HUGO last night. Truly a wonderful story which did an excellent job tying in a gripping fictional story of an isolated boy with numerous hardships, the love and appreciation of the film art, and the often forgotten but fascinating life of Georges Méliès.
Every time I play the movie I identify more with the story. Without revealing spoilers, I've gradually come to realize that there is a lot going on regarding fixing intricate machinery, not having spare parts, how the world works and the importance of each human being to fulfill a purpose. It's come to the point the last time I watched it I found tears of joy in my eyes. IMO, I'm finding that it really is a hidden masterpiece, classic art as well as 3D eye candy.
Paul
 

RolandL

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GregK said:
Hi Roland,
It is true the effective resolution per eye of current passive displays is half from a vertical standpoint, while horizontal resolution remains full. How noticeable (if noticeable) this is depends on some variables. http://i.bfads.net/u/resolution_chart.png
Or for further reading on resolution, screen size, and viewing distances, this is a nice somewhat related read with great sample images http://www.thebestplasmatv.com/guides/720p-vs-1080p/
So the deciding factors in my book are in the following order:
(a) how big of a display do you want? (b) how far back will viewers be from the display? (c) how many people on average will be watching, meaning- how much $$ is needed for 3D glasses? (d) Are you sensitive to occasional temporal (aka: phasing) artifacts which is standard with active displays? (e) will you be watching the display straight on, or due to room or viewing constraints, be looking slightly up or down at the display?
For the record, I have both active and passive 3-D set-ups, and appreciate the pros and cons of each system.
Hi Greg,
Thank you for the information. I currently have two large HD displays, a Sony 55 inch 1080p KDL55NX810 3D TV and a Sanyo PLV-Z4 720p front projector. I love the 3D on the Sony and when the bulb dies on the Sanyo, I would love to get a 1080p 3D front projector. I like the http://i.bfads.net/u/resolution_chart.png chart in that since I'm about 16 feet from the screen for the Sanyo, I should get the "full benefit of 1080p" when I upgrade. What 3D front projectors less than $3,000 would you recommend? I like the Panasonic AE7000 ability to "display a 2.4 widescreen source in native one-to-one pixel match direct from the source" but a DLP has less problems with crosstalk than an LCD for 3D.
Thanks!
 

Bob Furmanek

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Paul Hillenbrand said:
Every time I play the movie I identify more with the story. Without revealing spoilers, I've gradually come to realize that there is a lot going on regarding fixing intricate machinery, not having spare parts, how the world works and the importance of each human being to fulfill a purpose. It's come to the point the last time I watched it I found tears of joy in my eyes. IMO, I'm finding that it really is a hidden masterpiece, classic art as well as 3D eye candy.
Paul
HUGO should have won best picture. I saw THE ARTIST as well and while I enjoyed it, I found parts of the story to be very predictable.
HUGO works its magic on many levels.
Bob
 

RolandL

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GregK said:
When I peeked over my polarized spectacles a couple of times during the feature, or inadvertently triggered an on-screen display like volume up or down, I noticed one other notable aspect of HUGO. Like many of the slightly older IMAX 3-D features, HUGO often places most of the subject matter outside of the stereo window (negative parallax), with the background roughly being at the stereo window. With the primary subject matter and the obvious focus of attention being misconverged most of the time, any display related ghosting with high contrast material will be more apparent. HUGO didn't always follow this approach, but from what I noticed on my first viewing, it was frequent. I'll have to watch this one again soon.
While watching BOLT, the whole image appears to be about six inches in front of my Sony TV. I have not seen this with other 3D content.
 

AlexF

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I must (once again) commend the HTF and their reviewers... I missed Hugo in the theatres for various reason but went for a blind buy of the 3D blu-ray today.
Completely based on comments from people here whose opinions I respect.
I plan to watch it this evening.
 

AlexF

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Having now watched the film -- I have to agree whole-heartedly with all of the recommendations. The 3D is magical and amazingly well done, there was not a hint of ghosting that I saw on my display (LG47 passive, with a Sony BR player), and the music was wonderfully tonal. Most all of the actors were appropriately cast, and the pacing was just about perfect.
Whether it was the "best picture" or not? I don't know -- I haven't seen enough of the nominees to have a clue. Did I enjoy it? Definitely. And to be honest, that matters more to me.
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by Bob Furmanek /t/318900/hugo-blu-ray-3d-review/30#post_3903229
HUGO should have won best picture. I saw THE ARTIST as well and while I enjoyed it, I found parts of the story to be very predictable.
HUGO works its magic on many levels.
Bob
You and me, both. I think Scorsese got screwed by the academy again.






Crawdaddy
 

TheBat

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Robert Crawford said:
You and me, both.  I think Scorsese got screwed by the academy again. 
Crawdaddy
I think if he had not won for the departed that he would have won for hugo.
Jacob
 

Ronald Epstein

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Things move a little slowly on this end these days....

Just finished watching the 3D release of HUGO this morning
and I have a few thoughts to give about it...

First of all, there has been conflicting reviews about this release
concerning the amount of crosstalk (ghosting) in it. Obviously,
Neil's review doesn't give any mention of such ghosting. Member
reviews that follow don't either. However, the review over at BD.COM
suggests this film is almost unwatchable because of the amount
of crosstalk present.

On my LG display, there was a good deal of crosstalk to be
seen. For the most part, it did not ruin my enjoyment of the film,
but by it's end, I was very upset that it really seemed to be getting
out of hand. As Georges Méliès (Ben Kingsley) is being recognized
for his works, the amount of double-imaging between the infamous
man-in-the-moon clip (especially around the moon) and the close-up
of Kingsley's face is very well pronounced.

The fact some are seeing it and some are not, goes back to my
conclusion that most of these problems are hardware related.

Putting that all aside, I felt that this was an exceptional Blu-ray
presentation. Watching this film for the second time, in 3D for
the first time, I am absolutely sorry that I picked The Artist for
Best Picture, which is really subpar when compared to this film.

Hugo is Scorsese's masterpiece. It's his homage to everything
that influenced his career. It's a story so wonderfully told and
beautifully presented on the screen. It's a real shame Scorsese
didn't win Best Director for this incredible film.

As much as the presentation is visually appealing, I really enjoyed
being enveloped in the film's soundtrack. Particularly memorable
is the the sound of ticking clocks and winding gears rising up from
the rear channels against Howard Shore's sweeping score.

Truly magical in every sense of the word.

For anyone that doubts the power of 3D and how much it
enhances the viewing experience, should really take a look
at Hugo. It's one of the best 3D experiences I have enjoyed.
I am going to place it near the top of our Top 15 list of must-own
3D titles.
 

DavidJ

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Ron, I agree with almost all of what you have to say about Hugo (I disagree with your sentiment that The Artist is sub par by comparison). It is a wonderful movie and represents film making at the highest level on all fronts. If you get to view it in 3D, it is also the best use of 3D I've seen in a movie. Scorsese knocked this one out of the park. You could learn so much about film making by studying this film. I'm not sure there is a wrong narrative beat, cut, musical cue, camera shot, etc. in it.
As for crosstalk, I did notice it at times during my viewing, but it wasn't overwhelming. It seemed to be more noticeable in the second half of the film. It first really recently watched Puss in Boots in 3D on it and found the crosstalk to be pretty disturbing. Hugo was mild by comparison.
 

fxrh

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RolandL said:
What 3D front projectors less than $3,000 would you recommend? DLP has less problems with crosstalk than an LCD for 3D.
I don't want to start a flame war here, but DLP truly reigns supreme in the world of home theatre 3D. I have just finished watching HUGO in 3D for the second time (didn't see it in theatres; first watched it Tuesday afternoon) and once again there was zero ghosting/crosstalk. I have over forty 3D Blu-rays, I've watched all but four of them, many more than once, and I've seen ghosting about three times for a total of about ten seconds. I can live with that.
I have a Mitsubishi 73" DLP set and an Optoma HD66 projector, both of which yield spectacular 3D. If you are in the market for a projector, I would recommend the Acer H9500BD in first place followed by the Optoma HD33. Both of these 1080P DLP projectors have threads singing their praises.
I'm new to this forum and don't know if I'm allowed to post links, so I'll just recommend that you search for the threads on these two. In particular, I recommend that you check out one of the last few pages of the lengthy Acer thread for a truly amazing image comparing ghosting/crosstalk on multiple projectors.
Again, sorry to be coy, but since I'm brand new to this forum I don't want to break any rules... I know that on some boards you aren't allowed to post links to other boards.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Hey Sam!

Welcome to our forum. Glad you found us and we hope you will stay.

I used to own a DLP display, and I agree that the technology is hard
to beat. Love the deep black levels of DLP.
 

fxrh

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Ronald Epstein said:
Welcome to our forum.  Glad you found us and we hope you will stay.
Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I love 3D and have very much enjoyed your 3D reviews. It's always fun to run into other like-minded enthusiasts!
By the way, I'm sure you must have heard about the 3D Blu-ray of A TURTLE'S TALE: SAMMY'S ADVENTURES. Well, it's all true -- you are in for a "pop-out" smorgasbord with this one! The 2D Blu-ray is scheduled for release on 3 April but I haven't heard about an official 3D Blu-ray release. If you can't wait (and I couldn't), there's a Hong Kong version in Region A available. Again, just do a search; I'm hesitant to post where it can be purchased. The disc is not cheap, but it's worth it! (Be careful about the UK version as it is Region B.)
This is the demo disc for 3D pop-out effects!
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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fxrh said:
By the way, I'm sure you must have heard about the 3D Blu-ray of A TURTLE'S TALE: SAMMY'S ADVENTURES. Well, it's all true -- you are in for a "pop-out" smorgasbord with this one! The 2D Blu-ray is scheduled for release on 3 April but I haven't heard about an official 3D Blu-ray release. If you can't wait (and I couldn't), there's a Hong Kong version in Region A available. Again, just do a search; I'm hesitant to post where it can be purchased. The disc is not cheap, but it's worth it! (Be careful about the UK version as it is Region B.)
This is the demo disc for 3D pop-out effects!
Just an FYI: The Hong Kong region-A version is called "Sammy's Adventures: The Secret Passage" UPC# 4895033773122. It displays exceptional 3D rendering achievements. The movie was made in Belgium, directed by Ben Stassen, and the BD 3D disc includes the original English Dolby TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack.
Paul
 

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