htpc vs progressive scan dvd player --which is superior (1 Viewer)

[Scott Hine]

Hello All,
This has been a great read for myself.

I just got a front projector, it’s output is 1024x768. I bought the Panasonic RP-82 Progressive scan DVD player and hook it up through component cables (Blue Jean Cables). I turned on the project and.....The picture looks AWAFUL. I could not believe how poor the picture was, from this DVD player.

I am now looking to get a Quadscan Elite HD Scaler. I am hoping this will make my picture better. I have been able to find these used for about $500.00. I do not want to deal with the HTPC. I have played with and built PC's for many years while I was heavy into gamming. I think it would be a headache to "keep up" with everything for the HTPC. Besides I will hook up my DVD Player, TV and Playstation2 all to the same device and have it upscale to higher resolutions, and my wife could use it without a problem.

- Scott

 

[Ron Boster]

Scott:

What about the PD-1100 that I'm using? No HTPC hassles, but the native resolution output!!!

See my post above for the link.

Ron

PS: Yohan thanks for the clear, concise answer. Hopefully, Vaughan's lack of response means he now understands how a quality HTPC can output a higher resolution to a XGA projector, which equals a better picture.

 

[Scott Hine]

I think the PD-1100 looks great. It is way out of my price range. After buying the Panasonic RP-82, a 100 inch Da-Lite screen, Projector, new reciver and all cabling. My wife is ready to shoot me. I think I can get the Quadscan Elite HD Scaler for around 500.00, and that is considered my birthday present for next July

- Scott

Edit--- Forgot the new sub also

 

[Reece]

Well it looks like Ron's PD-1100 is winning so far in terms of features combined with ease of use IMHO. I am personally leaning in this direction, however in my case I would have to try to explain to my lady why I purchased "another dvd player" for over 2K, especially after we already own 3.
It seems like the HTPC is the more affordable route and if you don't mind constantly tweaking, upgrading and dealing with windows it is the way to go.
Decisions...Decisions!

 

[Don Munsil]

All[/I]]Quote:

I'm really scratching my head here. Have you not read our report? Or is there something missing from it that you'd like us to add? We deconstruct the deinterlacing algorithms of HTPCs and stand-alone DVD players pretty thoroughly, with pictures and diagrams and everything.
Link Removed
Please, if something is confusing in that article, let me know. I'm working on a rewrite at this very moment, and I'd appreciate the feedback.
Best,
Don

 

[VikP]

I can see this debate still rages on. Having worked on the Chromatic Research Mpact chip I was actually one of the first advocates of HTPC back in 1997. Back then it was much harder convincing people that PCDVD was far superior to NTSC DVD! A lot has changed since then!

Vik

 

[Ron Boster]

I think Don and Vince's discussion points out another plus for PC based DVD players....the ability to upgrade without having to scrap the entire player. As the DVD world improves in performance, so can your PCDVD/HTPC at minimal cost vs buying another state of the art player or flag ship unit. By the time those features trickle down to the low and mid-price point players....new features have been added to support better HTPC/PCDVD performance...which allows PC's to be a step ahead at a lower cost.

Ron

 

[Don Munsil]

Ron,

Well... sometimes. If it's a software issue, it can just be downloaded, and often that's free. Some standalone DVD players allow you to download and install firmware fixes, but it's more complicated, and they generally aren't as forthcoming with fixes. So that's a good thing about HTPCs.

But if it's a hardware change, like a new video card, that can cost nearly as much as a whole new DVD player. It's important to consider that one of the best DVD players overall right now is about $230. A GeForce MX 420 costs around $150.

Don't get me wrong - I think when HTPCs are good, they're very good. Amazingly, astoundingly, fantastically good. But they can also be very bad, and they still aren't nearly as easy to use as standalone DVD players. This is slowly changing, with software like Microsoft's Media Center OS, and hardware like the new nVidia and ATI cards with better deinterlacing. In a few years, we may be able to say that HTPCs are always better; no compromises at all.

Best,
Don

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Sorry- While I was aware of your prog scan article- I had not yet read it. I will certainly try to make time to do so however. When i said I was "looking forward"- I was more specifically referring to the conetnt of a HTPC vs Progressive scan DVD report- and differences in the methodologies.

-Vince

 

[Don Munsil]

Vince,
The short answer to your question is that some standalone DVD players slavishly follow the flags, and some use cadence analysis. Some use a hybrid approach that works a little bit better. In general, though, cadence reading solutions are the best available. Flag reading solutions are not better, they're just cheaper. And on an HTPC, doing cadence analysis and MPEG decoding at the same time is pretty processor-intensive. We might well see a software DVD player accomplish it at some point, but so far, they all use simple flag-reading algorithms, which is the least effective strategy.
The answers to all your questions are in the article, including (I would think) most or all of the answers to the HTPC vs. standalone DVD player issues. I'm not making this stuff up - we spent hundreds of hours researching and testing for that article and the shootouts. We spoke to engineers at software and hardware companies. We read actual MPEG specs. We talked to MPEG experts. I wrote a utility that dumps out the flags and encoding on DVDs so we could really see how they are flagged.
So my point is, instead of guessing how it all works, read the article and find out.
Best,
Don

 

[Max Leung]

So, um, which PC DVD player software is the best for DVD playback? I am extremely disappointed with the PowerDVD and WinDVD packages, and am unaware of any serious PC DVD player comparison of the detail and thoroughness of Munsil and colleagues.

Has such a review ever been done?

I truly despise the image quality of those two very popular DVD players...yeeccch.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=82153
Not a direct comparison ala Don Munsil, but a basic overview. Hopefully with HTPC getting more popular, some more of these indepth articles will be posted.
Theatertek is better than PowerDVD and Windvd in picture quality (although there is more to getting good quality than just the software- it's just one piece in the puzzle)--- and Theatertek interface is designed to be more streamlined for HTPC use.
-Vince

 

[Andrew Pratt]

This is the best explination of scaling I've seen yet
Scaling images

 

[Max Leung]

I hadn't previewed Theatertek myself. Hmmm, actually, I don't think there is any trial version of that player available. With the low quality of most software DVD playback I've seen so far, I am afraid to spend more $$$ on it until I see detailed comparisons by someone who already took the risk.
I'd love to see side-by-side screenshots of scaled output, with zoomed sections outlining the major differences between the players. Perhaps even show two or more consecutive frames from each player, to detail how well it handles compression artifacts and other niggly details. Such an analysis could also expose any flag problems and so forth.
Considering the investment in money and time (especially the latter, when dealing with complex PC software) needed to build an HTPC, I think this sort of review would be well worth the effort, and justify the anal-ness!

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

The main problem here is that in order to get the screen cap- you would have to decode in the software realm (decoding in HW means the windows environment never really sees the image- instead it is placed in an overlay directly by a decoding engine on the card). For many HTPC systems, the hardware decoding is the entire point. You could get some idea, but for the most part it's moot in comparison to what you would actually see.

If you're actually interested in the technical specifications of how the video happens and how the quality ranks in less subjective terms, hang out on AVS-- you'll find more technical information that you should legally be allowed to consume without a doctors perscription. This is all old hat really, and nearly every question you have with your recent discovery has been previously beaten to death on the AVS HTPC area (which is insanely active).

Trust me, nearly every "videophile" with a projection setup I have seen is using a HTPC configuration of some kind (although the latest buzz is feeding from a stand alone transport via SDI into a card and using a deinterlacer with 3:2 pulldown detection like Dscaler).

-Vince

 

[Max Leung]

Ok, thanks for the reassurance Vince. The AVS forum is a little difficult to follow, considering the heavy traffic and the occasional problems I have finding meaningful search terms (too many hits! ). I'll definitely give it another go when I finally do upgrade to a dedicated HTPC solution, give or take a couple of years.