DVD Review HTF REVIEW: "West Side Story" Special edition (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) (with screenshots) (1 Viewer)

[Joe Caps]

The documentary covers some of the dubbing facts, but not all. RussTamblyn is dubbed in the Jet song but nowhere else.
Rita Moreno talks as if she is only dubbed in a Boy Like that but almost all of the singing for Rita is Betty Wand.
Betty did a lot of dubbing in films, most famously for Leslie Caron in Gigi.
rita has two dubbers in one part. In the Quintet she is dubed by Betty Wandin he First part( anitas going to get her kidks tonight...). The second part of the quintet is too high for betty, so Marni Nixon who is singing for Natalie Wood, also sings for Rita in this part (live tonight... we're going to mix it tonight).
Jim Bryant sings for Richard Beymer. Jim Bryant told me that the first two lines of Maria (the most beautiful sound I ever heard, all the beautiful sounds of the world in a single word) is sung by Richard Beymer himselg, then Jim takes over for the rest of the song. More of Jim bryant is being released on dvd. He sings for James fox in the upcoming release of Thoroughly Modern Millie.
More Sondheim is on the way. Image just announced the dvd release of Passion, a difficult but brilliant musical.

 

[DeeF]

Joe, I don't know where you get your facts, but Anita's line "Anita's going to get her kicks tonight..." is clearly Rita Moreno singing. Rita is a very good singer, the only person in the world with an Oscar, Emmy, Grammy and Tony in competitive categories.

The second half of the song is Marni, you were correct about that.

The little dialogue between Riff and Tony was altered for the movie, which takes place between Riff and Ice. This must be Russ Tamblyn's real voice, because the person he's singing with is Tucker Smith.

 

[Brian W.]

Yeah, you can tell when it's Rita singing and when it's Betty Wand singing. Their voices sound nothing alike. It's clearly Rita on "America" and the "Anita's gonna get her kicks" bit, and Betty Wand on "A Boy Like That."

Plus, I have the Westside Story soundtrack CD, and it credits them each with the above songs.

 

[Joe Caps]

had lunch at the consumer electronics show withrita moreno tenyears ago and swhe herself said she recorded nothing for the movie. Same with luch with music supervisor saul Chaplin. Also, if you know the voice of Betty Wand, it's obviously betty singing Marias going to get her kicks tonight.
P.S. I f rare acetate for film shows up with Ritas voice on it, i reserve the right to choose which kind of omelet I wear on my face.

 

[DeeF]

Funny, I just had an omelette for breakfast!



It's Rita's voice in the Quintet and in America. All you have to do is listen.

If she told you she sang nothing, she was probably referring only to that song, "A Boy Like That," which doesn't sound like her at all.

I've never talked to Rita about the dubbing of this movie, but I did talk to her at length this last summer, following her performance in "Candide" with the San Francisco Symphony. She held her own, singing-wise, with much younger opera singers. Rita can sing, and there's really little reason for her to be dubbed except the one she says on the documentary, that her low notes couldn't be heard in "A Boy Like That," so they chose to dub her, and she didn't think the dubbing matched her expression at all.

I have no actual proof either way, just what my ears tell me. But if I'm wrong, I'll eat an omelette mixed with crow, tomorrow.

 

[Greg_M]

Stories always differ, but at the 40th anniversary of WSS at the Egyptain : Robert Wise, Rita Moreno, Russ Tamblyn, George Charkis, Marni Nixon were all on the panel discussion following the film.

Rita Moreno said she was completely dubbed by Betty Wand in "A Boy Like That" and admitted to being dubbed by Marni Nixon in the "Quintet" But she added she did her own singing for "America" and was proud of that fact (though one line does sound like it was dubbed near the end - "everyone here will have moved here") Also most actors record their own vocals even if they are going to be dubbed so the dubber can match their inflections. So wouldn't Rita have recorded her own songs before Betty and Marni stepped in.

If three women had to perform the vocals for Anita, Chita Rivera must have had a pretty powerful voice.



Marni Nixon was also present to verify. She also stated she worked closely with Natalie on the film for much of the shoot (unlike some reports I've read where she came in and dubbed the whole film in one afternoon)


Russ Tamblyn also said he was dubbed over by Tucker Smith in "The Jet Song" but his own voice was used for the rest of the film.

Russ also said he never auditioned for the part of Riff, he was one of the final actors to be considered for the part of Tony, a role he badly wanted He didn't get Tony but was offered the role of Riff.


I was surprised to find Natalie Wood's voice was so weak. She sounded much stronger in "Gypsy" where she did most of her own singing, and on some out take tracks I've heard of her singing "One Hand, One Heart" and "Tonight"

The intermission musical appears to have been recorded during the time of the film and was probably used overseas and in theaters opting for an intermission.

Dropped the ball a few times:
Why not include the whole undubbed song "I Feel Pretty" and "Jet Song" (like WB did on the My Fair Lady" DVD) as a seperate supplement?

 

[DeeF]

Regarding Anita: If three women had to perform the vocals for this role Chita Rivera must have had a pretty powerful voice.

Chita's vocals on the original cast recording are simply astounding, and she had to do the show live, singing and dancing everything. Astounding.

Saul Chaplin was often ruthless about dubbing. While dubbing Tony and Maria was obviously needed, I find Marni Nixon's voice, though beautiful, very indistinct, anonymous, in this part. Marni worked hard to match her sound to Deborah Kerr, and that is the best dubbed part (for The King and I). But here, in WSS, Maria often sounds disembodied. The dubbing was post-looped, which was unusual -- usually the song would be recorded first and then the onscreen performer would sync to the pre-recording.

It's less clear why Tamblyn was dubbed on one song and Moreno on one song and bits and pieces of another. She says that her low notes couldn't be heard, but then, it is the high notes in the Quintet which are dubbed. And she was a good singer -- I for one would like to hear what she originally did with "A Boy Like That" -- I bet it was screamed and not very pretty, but that's what is required, anyway.

Anyway, if you want to hear a looping mess, listen (in headphones) to the song "Gigi," actually recorded by Louis Jourdan himself. He was called back to the studio about 10 times, and they edited many, many takes into what you hear in the final film. When you listen in headphones, you can actually hear the edits, the different audible ambience and vocal quality from different takes on different days. There's no surer way to remove the life out of a performance.

 

[Jefferson]

Ihave always thought
that Marni Nixon matches Natalie the best
in that little
a capella piece, over Tony's body
"hold my hand and we're halfway there...etc"....

When she gets to "someday....somehow", etc...
it sounds
appropriately rough, and matches the emotion
of the moment.

This dubbing discussion is fascinating.
The reasons for doing it never seem cut and dry.
(I have never minded
Ava Gardner's actual voice on the SHOW BOAT album,
and always wince when
I hear the dubbed version of her voice in the finished film)

 

[Joe Caps]

I also heard the acetates of Natalie Wood in tonight and ONe Hand One heart - she isn't al that bad and its amazing how much Marni Nixon matched her. So much so that I asked the person with the acetates (dubber Jim Bryant) if it wasn't partially Marni.
Again, when I met with Robert Wise, he told me the plan was to have Natalie until the last moment. He said there was a screening at the studio and he (Wise) sat behind Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner. When the film finished, Wagner turned to Wood and said "Sorry, it's not good enough" Natalie turned to Wise at that moment and said "Dub me."
Back in 1986, stayed with To Bodley, who was head of post production at Goldwyn. He had the recording logs for West Side Story and the logs whosed the sessions with Jim Bryant, Natalie Wood, Betty Wand etc etc but NEVER Rita Moreno.
rita had in her contract for King and I that she could not be dubbed and refused to be dubbed; at which point Fox cut almost all of her singing from the film. She only sings"to kiss in teh sunlight andsay to the sky, behold and believe what you see, behold how my lover loves me." and thats all she sings for the entire movie.

 

[DeeF]

Marni also dubs the final two words of "Little Lamb" in GYPSY for Natalie. Natalie does the rest of the singing in that film on her own.

When I saw the synced takes of Natalie's original recordings in WSS, I was surprised how good they were. She isn't out of tune, at all, and she sustains the notes very well. The voice is too thin, but it sounds real. If they were making that movie today, her voice could have filters applied to make it richer, fuller. Today, probably none of them would have to be dubbed.

 

[DeeF]

rita had in her contract for King and I that she could not be dubbed and refused to be dubbed; at which point Fox cut almost all of her singing from the film. She only sings"to kiss in teh sunlight andsay to the sky, behold and believe what you see, behold how my lover loves me." and thats all she sings for the entire movie.
rita had in her contract for King and I that she could not be dubbed and refused to be dubbed; at which point Fox cut almost all of her singing from the film. She only sings"to kiss in teh sunlight andsay to the sky, behold and believe what you see, behold how my lover loves me." and thats all she sings for the entire movie.

It's true she was cut out of that movie, but you can hear more of her on the recording; for instance, the entire song "My Lord And Master." It's good singing, so it's hard to know why it was cut -- perhaps for timing reasons? The entire sequence of "Shall I Tell You What I Think Of You?" was also cut, and it is the best and most integrated dubbing ever achieved, sometimes Deborah Kerr and sometimes Marni Nixon, blended very well. It's not in the movie but it's on the soundtrack.

 

[Jefferson]

That's true.
And has anyone heard the KING AND I
laser boxed set....it has never used prerecordings
of WE KISS IN A SHADOW sung by Leona somebody or other...Leona Gordon?
in anticipation of PERHAPS dubbing Rita, which
they ended up not doing.

Sounds like they kept all bases and options covered with
this dubbing business...

 

[DeeF]

Speaking of Bob Fosse...



There are 3 clear hommages to West Side Story in the movie of Sweet Charity.

1. At the Pompeii restaurant, Maclaine and Montalban slowly meet on the dance floor amid gyrating dancers, and the music cue is unmistakable, a parody of Tony and Maria.

2. The number "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This," is filmed on a rooftop in Times Square, for no other reason than it alludes to "America," and there's Chita Rivera! The entire number is very similar in tone and choreography to the earlier movie.

3. The number, late in the film, "Rhythm of Life," is filmed in a garage, with car lights providing the light, very similar to "Cool."

 

[Randy A Salas]

The voice is too thin, but it sounds real.

As with a musical instrument, a thin tone often gives the audible impression of being sharp.

What I find most endearing about Wood's singing is how she tried to maintain the accent.

 

[DeeF]

Well, I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Natalie's actual singing was good, was suitable. It's a hard role, with a lot of hard singing. Curiously, Carol Lawrence wasn't really a singer, either (she was a dancer) for such a difficult part.

But then Kiri Te Kanawa isn't exactly right, either. Can't they ever find a trained soprano who happens to be Hispanic?

Anyway, I guess my expectations were low, so I was pleasantly surprised about Natalie.

I think her actual singing beats Audrey Hepburn's strident warbling of "Show Me" in My Fair Lady (also dubbed by Marni).

I was Marni Nixon's accompanist, at one point in the late 80s. She was fairly bitter about her "fame" though she sounded as lovely as ever. She is the mother of Andrew Gold, a talented pop musician who really got Linda Ronstadt going in the 70s, and then his own career kind of sunk. He wrote that song, "Thank You For Being A Friend" which is used as the theme song for the TV "Golden Girls."

 

[Jeff Bamberger]

Well, I can honestly say that I only like two Robert Wise films. And this is one of them.

Star Trek TMP?

 

[Randy A Salas]

Anyway, I guess my expectations were low, so I was pleasantly surprised about Natalie.

I certainly agree with that sentiment. She's absolutely charming. (I never agreed with those who questioned her casting, either.) Your intonation comment just threw me off.

 

[DeeF]

I'd love to find out who does the actual singing for Debbie Reynolds in "Singin' in the Rain," which must be the ultimate irony.

Debbie does her own singing in 3 places, "All I Do Is Dream Of You," "Good Morning," and the final "Singin' in the Rain."

But "Would You?" is clearly somebody else. And the speaking voice she supplies for Jean Hagen is somebody else, too.

Supposedly, Hagen supplied her own dubbing with her own speaking voice, doing it very low.

But somebody else is singing for Debbie.

 

[Jefferson]

Betty Noyes is singing for Debbie Reynolds
during the sections you mention in SINGIN IN THE RAIN

(This is who is listed on RHINO RECORDS Deluxe Edition
SOUNDTRACK CD, at any rate)

HAAA...anybody want to start "THE DUBBING THREAD"??

 

[Brian W.]

I also heard the acetates of Natalie Wood in tonight and ONe Hand One heart - she isn't al that bad and its amazing how much Marni Nixon matched her.

Yeah, in the little bit they have on the DVD, I was surprised at how much Wood and Nixon sounded alike, though Wood's voice had no strength to it.