HTF REVIEW: "Vertical Limit" Superbit vs. Standard (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

vs.

Vertical Limit

Hold Your Breath
Sitting in my collection for the past year
or more is a sealed copy of the original Columbia
DVD release of Vertical Limit. It stands
amongst hundreds of other DVDs that I have yet
to watch because my time is taken up with reviews.
Fortunately, Columbia sent me an early copy
of their new Superbit version of this title.
It gave me the opportunity to finally sit down
and watch a film I had always wanted to see.
Many of you already have seen this film
theatrically or on DVD. Since this review is
intended to promote the new DVD release, I will
recap the film's story for those that have never
seen it.
The story is a tale of young climber Peter Garrett
(Chris O'Donnell), who launches a treacherous
rescue effort up K2, the world's second highest
peak. His sister Annie Annie (Robin Tunney), and
her teammates (Bill Paxton and Nicholas Lea) are
trapped in a crevice that has become enclosed by
an avalanche at 26,000+ feet. This is the endurance
point known as the Vertical Limit where the human
body cannot survive the elements.
The movie comes off as a roller coaster than a
logical progression of events. While it remains
somewhat thrilling at times, it becomes filled
with all sorts of distractions including the
scheming of a publicity hungry media mogul, and
of a crazy old mountaineer who constantly combs
the mountain in search of his wife who died in a
disaster several years previously, and oh yes,
unstable nitro-glycerine at a Pakistani military
outpost.
Superbit vs. Standard
Many of you already know that I am not exactly
an advocate for Superbit. In most
side-by-side reviews that I have done on other
titles, I can usually see either little improvement
or no improvement at all over the original DVD
release. Let's face it -- most studios are putting
out incredible DVD product that look incredible
while not boasting extra signal bandwidth.

You will notice immediately that the Superbit
version has a generic menu as well as no Special
Features as the original DVD release did. The
reason is simple: if you want to have the bandwidth
for the extra bitrate and DTS track, you need to
can all the extras.
For this reason, the ONE question that should be
on everyone's mind is whether it is worth upgrading
from the original 2001 DVD release brimmed with
Special Features and commentary, to the Superbit
release that has no extras except a DTS track.
Transfer vs. Transfer
To compare both these titles, no-one needs to
go any further than the first 12 minutes of the
film where we are exposed to warm desert browns
and cold snow whites.
Because I don't have two identical players,
I had to constantly compare scenes by switching
DVDs back and forth. Unfortunately, this hinders
the opportunity to make a proper side-by-side
comparison.
After watching the first 12 minutes of this
movie, switching back and forth between both
discs, I am sorry to say that once again I find
no difference in the video quality.
All the video noise I saw was identical in
both versions. Shots of overhead blue sky as
well as shots set against brown rocks both
gave out the same amount of video noise.
Let's face it -- both these releases are about
a year apart. Last Year Columbia was releasing
top-notch transfers out of their hi-def center.
Everyone knew that last year's Vertical Limit
release was among the year's top transfers.
So trying to find a difference in overall transfer
quality is like trying to find a needle in a
haystack. I found the standard release of the
DVD to be just as good as the Superbit
version in overall transfer.
Sound is another matter....
The 5.1 DTS track is amazingly more robust
than the Dolby Digital track. I could immediately
hear more powerful sound coming from my speakers,
with more emphasis put on the LFE channel. My
SV SUBWOOFER was getting more pounds per beat
over the Dolby Digital track on the standard release.
My recommendation?
If I could find a reason to make any of you
cough up another $20 to buy this new version, it
would be solely based on the DTS track.
The problem is, I always prefer DTS over Dolby
Digital, finding DTS discs to be a sonic
improvement over their counterpart. So, the fact
that Columbia wins on their Superbit merely
because of a DTS track makes them real losers.
If this were a perfect world, Columbia would
release ALL their titles with a DTS track like
Universal and Fox usually do. This way, people
don't get duped into buying an initially unannounced
separate version that gets released a year later.
Once again, I find myself at bitter odds with
Superbit. It's a gimmick that I feel has
worn out its welcome. Why doesn't Columbia just
continue putting out first-rate standard DVD
releases as they always have, and include a DTS
track? If Columbia is so intent on Superbit,
then they should release ALL their "A" titles in
that format from the get go. Otherwise, these are
just attempts to make us repurchase titles we
already own.

 

[Jeff Adams]

Thanks Ron, I almost picked this one up yesterday when I was at Best buy purchasing Bandits and Usual Suspects special edition. But I wanted to wait and get my fellow Home Theater Forum members valued opinion first. I myself was wondering about how much better can this transfer be. The first one they put out was simply amazing. I agree Ron, if they are trying to market this as having better picture quality due to more bandwith then they need to deliver. If it is delivering a better sondtrack due to the DTS version of the movie, then just include the DTS soundtrack on the first version and scrap this whole gimmicky Superbit thing. I am all for a better quality version of the original but if they can do it right the first time then they should.

 

[Kenneth Cummings]

Well I glad this wasn't all that different. I just got the special edition on Monday(used for 12 dollars) and I yet to watch it. Once I get some time, I will enjoy this pop corn ride ^^.

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Ron,
like with the other superbit titles, it completely depends on the level of equipment. From a videophiles perspective, the difference in detail on VL is just as big as it was on all the other SB titles.
So, if you weren't able to appreciate the difference on the older SB titles, there is no reason why this or ANY future SB titles will appeal to you.
Thats why i kinda don't understand why you even bother to write SB reviews, Ron. If you don't see a difference on your setup, then you don't see it. Every future review will be like 'Again, no difference. Told you so!' Whats the point?
You already acknowledged in another SB review that mostly videophiles with FP setups are going to see a difference on these titles. And we DO.
If you accept the fact that the videophile minority on this forum sees and appreciates the difference, then you will ask 'So what, other studios make SB level transfers as well?'. Thats a valid point, and i tried to tackle that question in this thread.
I will post an A/B review on VL later, with the usual amount of comparison pics. In short, like on 5thE (see review on my page), the difference is solely more horizontal detail with a bit less/finer EE.
Makes a 'good' transfer 'great' on a highend setup.
Regards
Bjoern

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Bjoern,

I have every right to continue writing SB

reviews as I believe my reviews represent

the average Home Theater consumer.

I own a new Toshiba 57" anamorphic

television and I would estimate most members

in this forum have setups close to mine. These

are mid-range systems.

I would think most of the DVD buying population

don't even come close to owning mid-range systems.

Are you trying to tell me that Columbia is

marketing these discs solely for high-end

videophiles that represent the smallest sect of

the DVD buying population?

The truth is, you can look up any thread on

this forum that has a poll on SB and MOST

of the members here see little or no difference

in picture quality over previous versions.

I don't write reviews of SB titles just so I

can shove them in the faces of people like

yourself and say, "Aha - I told you so!". I

watch these releases and write reviews hoping

that just one of them will show me how much

improvement there really is for the average

DVD consumer.

 

[Dan Brecher]

Are you trying to tell me that Columbia is

marketing these discs solely for high-end

videophiles that represent the smallest sect of

the DVD buying population?

In fairness, this is certainly my belief in regard to Superbit titles. Me with my humble 32" 16:9, I see no point in buying them, but I carry the intent to purchase them when I eventually go the projection/HTPC route.

Dan

 

[Robert Crawford]

I believe it's Columbia's goal to sell high-end videophiles and as many medium-end videophiles as possible at least two different dvd releases of the same film. One will be loaded with features and the other a superbit edition. Also, if their lucky, maybe a third release such as a barebones early dvd release of a title. Remember, these studios learned their lessons well from the laser market.

Crawdaddy

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Hi Ron,

I don't write reviews of SB titles just so I

can shove them in the faces of people like

yourself and say, "Aha - I told you so!". I

watch these releases and write reviews hoping

that just one of them will show me how much

improvement there really is for the average

DVD consumer.

And i predict you will not find any. I think you would find a subtle difference if you would indeed have the possibility to switch instantly with 2 identical players. But in the end, that wouldn't really matter, because if you don't see it while simply looking at it, the difference is too small for you to even care.

But one thing you should keep in mind is this. Lets assume SB isn't beneficial to you on your current setup. But you believe me and others that there IS a noticable improvement on higher end setups. Wouldn't you want to take advantage of that improvement once the upgraditis is getting the better part of you again sometime in the future? Because maybe on your next setup you WILL appreciate the difference.

So, if we agree that the best possible PQ is a good thing, the question that remains is, how do we get CTHV to release EVERY title with the PQ of the superbit titles. Well, the only way to do this, is to embrace the SB titles to show them that we do care about PQ. They already listened to our complains that we also care about extras, so they throw us some SB Delux bones to see if we like these. If we also embrace those, this might lead to a SB-only lineup from CTHV in the future.

What do you think?

Bjoern

 

[DarrenA]

All I can say is that you both are correct. On my 50" CRT RPTV I see little to no difference between the standard version versus the SB version. However, when I do an A/B comparison on my 92" CRT FPTV their truly is a difference. The SB version does have more detail, less noise in the dark details and more depth to the image.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Bjoern,

I truly respect you and your opinion. I

have known you as a member here for quite

some time, and find you always contribute

honest and intelligent input to this forum.

Perhaps you are correct that I will never

see a difference with Superbit.

I think the real problem I have with the

format goes back to laserdisc days and what

laserphiles know better than anyone else...

The studios will always come up with new

ways to make you buy a title more than once.

Even Director John Landis made that statement

during a recent HTF live chat.

There are other things about Superbit that

make me think it's just a gimmick with limited

benefit....

* Why not release ALL future titles in

SUPERBIT? If it truly is the best DVD has

to offer, shouldn't the studio responsible

ensure that all its releases are done this way?

* Why doesn't Columbia give us an initial

intent of future SUPERBIT release when they

put out the standard version?

* If other studios are putting out exceptional

quality DVD product with DTS tracks on standard

releases, why can't Columbia?

You have to forgive my attitude here. I

think Columbia is one of the best DVD studios

out there, consistently putting out the best

transfers in the business.

However, the studios are constantly putting

out revised versions of their previously

released product that should have been done

right in the first place.

After a while it's hard to trust what the

studio's incentive is to re-release and

re-release.

 

[Tom Rags]

Do you get medical and dental coverage working at Columbia/TriStar, Bjoern?
Just kidding! I can see both of your points. However, don't be discouraged about the reviews Ron. With my meager setup, I really appreciate the opinion of an "everyman." I also enjoy reading Bjoern's comparisons, thinking that some day, with enough equipment and beer, I too may notice these differences. I tend to be a bit more concerned about audio than video anyway. To each their own I guess Take care gents!
--Tom

 

[Peter Overduin]

The original release is a family eye-candy fav! As such, it is a tremendous video and audio treat. From that persepctive, I truly wonder why they chose it for a SB. The original also sports a series of extra features that are very interesting to anyone who enjoys this genre of film.
I have yet to buy a single SB for the simple reason that my better than average equipment (Sony Wega 36", Paradigm monitors, ADP 170s, PS1200, Denon DVD1000 and 1601) leaves nothing to be desired with this title (and very little with the others I've compared). I am also very aggravated by Columbia's continued insistence at releasing already issued titles in the re-gurgitated format. Perhaps if they would do SB with a new release, and give me the choice, I would be happy and buy some. I'm not, and I won't

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Peter,

You took the words right out of my mouth.

If Columbia is going to continue releasing

SUPERBIT TITLES, they should do it with NEW

releases and give us a choice.

Otherwise, the public feels greatly cheated

a year later and is wary about the real intent

over the rerelease.

Is it really QUALITY improvement or a way to

sell a title twice?

 

[Gruson]

I for one do see a difference on my 65" 16x9 set.

I wish every DVD looked as good as the superbit releases.

Keep 'em coming!

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Is it really QUALITY improvement or a way to sell a title twice?

They call it the video *business* for a reason...

 

[Luis A]

FWIW I do see a difference in PQ on Superbit titles, but mostly buy'em for the DTS track.
L

 

[Dave Mack]

Hey Y'all!
I own a Mitsubishi 55908 Diamond and I see a BIG difference in the Bram Stoker's Dracula SB compared to the original. Much better detail and color accuracy.
And the sound... Wow.
D

 

[DeanWalsh]

While I can appreciate the Superbit releases, I am annoyed that CTHV will only put a DTS track on the Superbit titles. The 6th Day, Replacement Killers and Starship Troopers ALL should have had a DTS track, but yet again studio politics get in the way of definitive releases of these films. Wasted opportunities.

 

[luke j. chung]

It's my feeling that in order to fully discern and appreciate the upgrade in video quality of a Superbit vs. "regular" edition release, the hardware has to be in the top 10% of all consumer digital television displays in terms of resolution (and size)! Most rear projectors, even high-def displays, unless they are at least 61 inches or larger and capable of 16 x 9 anamorphic playback for DVDs, simply will not show an appreciable difference in picture quality when showing an unfiltered Superbit disc. For those who have front projection CRT or DLP setups, the improvement can be easily seen. My main objection to Superbit is the way Columbia/Sony has marketed the concept, NOT with the quality of their product.:rolleyes

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

I have a 53" Pioneer 16:9 DTV (non-elite) and I do see the improvement as well.

All this debate closely resembles the ongoing AC-3 vs DTS war.

Cheers

Andrew B.