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DVD Review HTF REVIEW: "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) (with screenshots) (1 Viewer)

Darko

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
155
Rain;
Ipicked it up yesterday, and watched it last night. I agree; great film. I, however didn't notice the jitter. Perhaps it is your disc, although, I may have gotten into the film too much to notice. I'll have to watch it again and check.
 

DaViD Boulet

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 24, 1999
Messages
8,826
Not a big deal, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed the image jittering a bit, especially in the latter half.
Rain,

Thanks for bringing it up. I was just about to post that myself but figured I read through the thread to see if anyone else had mentioned it first.

I found this really distracting :frowning:

It also seemed to affect some scan-line aliasing in the process...or was it DNR errors? Some small objects (or parts of objects) seemed to vanish and re-appear as the image "twittered". If a film was bobbing up and down you wouldn't have things vanishing and reappearing! Maybe compression or DVR got screwed up in the process?

It bugged me but I still managed to cry my eyes out at the end of the movie (does it every time). Other than the twitter thing (!@#$%&*) it was a great trasnfer!!!

dave :)
 

Rain

Senior HTF Member
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Mar 21, 2001
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Rain
Yup, David.

That describes pretty much what I saw.

Oh well. It's still pretty nice.
 

Mark Zimmer

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
4,318
I noticed this a couple times and I think it may be uneven shrinkage of the source print. I didn't find it terribly troublesome though.

I found the mono track much superior to the phony stereo, which sounds rather shrill and harsh much of the time. :thumbsdown:
 

Peter Kline

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 9, 1999
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2,393
In my listening, "stem" music recordings used to make "stereo" mixes have problems. The orchestra can all of a sudden "swim" with sections moving, changing places, balances going awry, etc. Also the use of the word "stereo" on DVDs using psuedo concoctions like Chace Stereo mixes is awful and untruthful. In the late early 50s the recording industry agreed to stop using the word "Stereo" on LPs which were simply enhanced mono. A truth in packaging situation. The RIAA deemed it the right thing to do. So far the MPAA and video companies have no such honesty. Just as OAR should be respected, so should the original sound mix.
 

DaViD Boulet

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Feb 24, 1999
Messages
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I was watching my TV pretty closely...I was about 5 feet back from a 27" 1.33:1 image.

I think on a projection system with a wider viewing angle it would be pretty obvious.

-dave
 

Jefferson

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
979
aaaarrrrghh...why didnt i read this "jitter" complaint
before i picked up this disc?

awwwwwwww...
 

Rain

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Rain
The "jitter" is not that big a deal and should not deter anyone from picking up this DVD.
 

DaViD Boulet

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Feb 24, 1999
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agreed. One should buy this DVD regardless of the jitter.

Hopefully our complaing just a bit will help Fox make sure this artifact isn't on any future DVD release of this or any other title. The "jitter" isn't so bad as is the scan-line shimmer that goes with it so better care during a/d conversion or compression ought to fix such a problem in the future if they get a bobby-film strip.

-dave
 

SteveP

Second Unit
Joined
Mar 6, 2001
Messages
274
Re: Rex Harrison--Julie Andrews, who, throughout her long career, has always been extremely reluctant to badmouth anyone, in 1995 did admit that in her three years of working with Harrison on stage, she found him to be "selfish", but regardless of that, he would "cut the mustard every single night" to such a degree that the selfishness was forgivable.
 

Darko

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
155
Watched it again last night, on my projection tv, and definately noticed the jitter this time. Agree that it's still no reason not to get this disc.
 

Jeff_HR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
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3,593
I watched this DVD this afternoon. I only noticed the jitter at the beginning of the film, not at the end. But I was too engrossed perhaps.
 

Bill Burns

Supporting Actor
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May 13, 2003
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747
Aside from the jitter issue (which I haven't yet confirmed on my disc), I did notice throughout the presentation, and also throughout the presentation of Gentlemen's Agreement, rather strong edge haloing. I let it pass while watching The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, but I've just watched Gentlemen's Agreement, and found it on that release as well. Has anyone else noticed the problem? My viewing equipment has been carefully calibrated with Avia in both SM and UM (it's a flat 32" Wega), and I've seen ... oh, quite a few B&W discs over the years. I have to say that the problem is standing out more prominantly on these (perhaps due to their clarity) than I've noticed on most other major studio B&Ws (some of which happily lack any noticeable haloing at all).

I bring it up in the hopes others may have noticed, and the studio may take additional measures to ensure such is not introduced to further transfers in the series. Apart from the haloing (which I did find distracting, unfortunately), I agree that these transfers are very good -- GE looks a bit harsh to me, but that might be the stock on which it was made (had studios changed to safety by '47?). Overall, wonderful transfers ... but who knew they were casting angels for these films? :D Heh.

Anyway, if anyone else has noticed halo troubles, it might bear some discussion for the benefit of studio feedback. I haven't yet seen How Green Was My Valley, The Day the Earth Stood Still, or The Song of Bernadette, so I don't know if these B&Ws demonstrate the same problem, and while I've watched All About Eve's Studio Classics release once, I honestly wasn't paying close attention to picture quality at the time. I'd have to revisit it to see if the problem manifests itself there as well.

As one example of haloing within The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, I'd call attention to the scene early in the picture that takes place inside the real estate agent's office. The edges of the actors and certain objects to screen right, in particular (as is usually the case with EE), show small, but solid and therefore noticeable haloing.

I love the Studio Classics series (great price, fine films, often wonderful supplements), and hope this matter is confined only to these early releases. Don't forget that mention has been made of such as Heaven Can Wait, Cavalcade, and of course Grapes of Wrath, all of which may find their way to us in 2004 under the banner. I'm very much looking forward to them, but no matter how amusing they might be in Heaven Can Wait :D, I trust halos will be a thing of the past.
 

ErikN

Grip
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
15
I noticed the jittering a lot. It's very noticeable in the whole of chapter 18 where there are a lot of reflections on the looking glass ( don't know the name of the thing ) and even on her face. It was very distractiong to me. The same way Disney's Beauty was a distraction because of extreme compression problems of colors at times and of linenoise at all times ( R2 UK DVD ).

I hope this won't appear on any of their other DVDs. I'm looking forward to Robin Hood.
 

Ben_D

Agent
Joined
Apr 16, 2003
Messages
47
I haven't heard anyone else mention sound issues in the last act of Ghost and Mrs. Muir. The sound on my disc sounds like it's coming out of a tin can, beginning with the crashing waves as the scene changes to the final, "old lady" scene where Tierney is in heavy age makeup. It sounds terrible for the whole finale, which is a big let-down. It's the same way in stereo or mono, though a bit more bearable in mono. Is this something others have noticed, or should I purchase a new copy?
 

jonathan_little

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
223
I think the sound is just rather poor, but I don't remember it getting significantly worse during the finale sequence. I find the video jitter to be more annoying than the sound. It seems that Fox didn't want to spend the money on a remix or all of the sound elements simply didn't exist. The original score tracks do exist, though, and they sound much better than what's on the DVD.

The stereo track on this DVD really isn't stereo, it's just some fake "stereo" processing of the mono track. Fox has put the same crap on some of the other DVDs in this series.
 

Al (alweho)

Second Unit
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Messages
284
The stereo track on this DVD really isn't stereo, it's just some fake "stereo" processing of the mono track. Fox has put the same crap on some of the other DVDs in this series.
Actually Jonathan, if I remember correctly, while it's not considered traditional stereo, it is a way of using the originally recorded multiple tracks to create a more dimensional sound mix.

Back then Fox (and MGM) used multiple mikes on key movies (or prestige releases) to record music in order to balance the sound a bit more for mono playback. (They could fill in weaker sections of the orchestra, or highlight key instruments.) The engineers were looking to clarify the orchestral sound a bit more and were always experimenting with various recording techniques.

Since these multitracks already exist - and of course there is a lot of bleedthough - careful modern mixing techniques can produce a fuller and more dimensional soundtrack from these elements. So while the original recordings were never really intended for what we know as stereo today, they do allow for something other than just mono to be reproduced. (And in a few cases there were enough mikes used that for all intents and purposes they did provide enough material for a quality stereo mix-down.)

For MGM Meet Me in St. Louis, Wizard of Oz and Singin in the Rain on DVD benefit from this recording method on DVD, How Green Was My Valley and The Day the Earth Stood Still (I think) benefit from this on Fox DVD. And various other classic era films only got this special recording treatment on a few key tracks, preventing a modern stereo presentation now.
 

jonathan_little

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
223
If you enable Prologic decoding on this "stereo" track, the audio signal fills all speakers (dialog, music, effects, everything on it.) That's evidence to me that it's simply a pseudo-stereo out-of-phase job made using the mono soundtrack. If this was something different, the dialog wouldn't be going into all 5 speakers when I turn on Prologic. The same thing happens with The Day the Earth Stood Still DVD. The stereo remix of TDTESS shown on AMC has true directionality in both music and sound effects, while the "stereo" track on the DVD is just mono that has been mangled to fill both channels with different sounding content.

The CD of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir on Varese Sarabande is mostly real stereo, except for track 2, which is in mono. As you note, it's not stereo in the modern sense of the word, but there are clearly two distinct and real channels of sound on the disc. If you compare the stereo CD and the "stereo" DVD track, I think you'll hear the difference.
 

Ben_D

Agent
Joined
Apr 16, 2003
Messages
47
I don't remember it getting significantly worse during the finale sequence. I find the video jitter to be more annoying than the sound.
That's interesting, because the sound on my disc DOES get significantly worse. Anybody would notice it; it's very jarring as the last scene begins. I didn't notice the jitter that everyone complained about, but maybe that's because I was too focused on the fact that the soundtrack suddenly sounded so bad. Maybe I will try to pick up another copy.
 

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