DVD Review HTF REVIEW: The English Patient (2-disc Special Edition) (1 Viewer)

[Craig S]

Thanks for another excellent review, David. It's very disappointing to hear about the video "quality" on this as it is one of my most anticipated upgrades - the original non-anamorphic release was one of the 1st titles I bought with my first DVD player back in 1998!!

Speaking of which - did you have a chance to compare the older disc with the new one? I seem to remember it being a pretty nice transfer, despite being non-anamorphic.

I just did the math and realized I sit about 2.5 - 3 screen widths away from my 57" set (I have a big living room), so hopefully I won't notice the flaws as much.

As for the film - the Academy got it right in naming it Best Picture. I think it's a masterpiece. Watching TEP is for me a dreamlike experience. The way it's shot, cut & scored just transports me into a state of reverie.

I hear what you're saying about the morals of some of the characters, but I still love this film. The characters in TEP are profoundly human, and we humans don't always do the right thing. But one of the great things about this film is that we understand and empathize with the characters even when they're straying from the moral path. I think it's Roger Ebert who's fond of saying "It's not what the film's about, it's how it's about it", and that definitely applies here. The English Patient may be (partially) about adultery, but it's about it brilliantly!

 

[Craig S]

Thanks for another excellent review, David. It's very disappointing to hear about the video "quality" on this as it is one of my most anticipated upgrades - the original non-anamorphic release was one of the 1st titles I bought with my first DVD player back in 1998!!

Speaking of which - did you have a chance to compare the older disc with the new one? I seem to remember it being a pretty nice transfer, despite being non-anamorphic.

I just did the math and realized I sit about 2.5 - 3 screen widths away from my 57" set (I have a big living room), so hopefully I won't notice the flaws as much.

As for the film - the Academy got it right in naming it Best Picture. I think it's a masterpiece. Watching TEP is for me a dreamlike experience. The way it's shot, cut & scored just transports me into a state of reverie.

I hear what you're saying about the morals of some of the characters, but I still love this film. The characters in TEP are profoundly human, and we humans don't always do the right thing. But one of the great things about this film is that we understand and empathize with the characters even when they're straying from the moral path. I think it's Roger Ebert who's fond of saying "It's not what the film's about, it's how it's about it", and that definitely applies here. The English Patient may be (partially) about adultery, but it's about it brilliantly!

 

[Craig S]

I hate to say it, but I was thinking the same thing. David, have you ever had an opportunity to talk to the folks at Disney/Miramax about your concerns with the quality of the video presentation on their DVDs??

 

[Craig S]

I hate to say it, but I was thinking the same thing. David, have you ever had an opportunity to talk to the folks at Disney/Miramax about your concerns with the quality of the video presentation on their DVDs??

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Elias,

I honestly think it's just ignorance on the part of some folks in the mastering house. After all, using only a minimal amount of HF filtering and applying no EE produces a DVD that looks just as good on a small screen...so it's not like just because most people watch these DVDs on small sets MIRAMAX *needs* to screw them up this way. Have you ever heard of someone with a 27" TV calling Disney and complaining that their DVD image has too much natural image detail and has natural instead of artifical sharpness??? Of course not. No one complained about the lack of EE on any of the DVD titles out there mastered properly. No reason why it needs to happen.

You know, I bet it couldn't hurt for a few folks to call that 1-800 number on the back of their English patient DVDs and let the customer service know that they are bothered by the "ringing" in the picture...

Craig,

Excellent points you make about the film. Well stated.

And yes I did do some comparison (both picture and sound) with the older DVD. Re-read my picture/audio quality assessment and you'll see the references.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Elias,

I honestly think it's just ignorance on the part of some folks in the mastering house. After all, using only a minimal amount of HF filtering and applying no EE produces a DVD that looks just as good on a small screen...so it's not like just because most people watch these DVDs on small sets MIRAMAX *needs* to screw them up this way. Have you ever heard of someone with a 27" TV calling Disney and complaining that their DVD image has too much natural image detail and has natural instead of artifical sharpness??? Of course not. No one complained about the lack of EE on any of the DVD titles out there mastered properly. No reason why it needs to happen.

You know, I bet it couldn't hurt for a few folks to call that 1-800 number on the back of their English patient DVDs and let the customer service know that they are bothered by the "ringing" in the picture...

Craig,

Excellent points you make about the film. Well stated.

And yes I did do some comparison (both picture and sound) with the older DVD. Re-read my picture/audio quality assessment and you'll see the references.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I've had some contact with some of the folks reponsible for the audio presentation on the discs, but only because they have read the reviews on this site and pro-actively contacted me to discuss (actually got an email from the guy who did the custom-home-theater mix for the Lion King...how cool is that!?!). But I've never heard a *peep* from any other studio member and no one responsible for anything picture-quality related has ever contacted me. Disney isn't quite like some of the other studios like WB and Fox where people seem to get to know them and talk plainly about various issues. The only number I have is for the marketing department that sends out the screeners...but I could try to ask and see if I can get anywhere.

Anyone know any contact information? Hello? Any of you Disney folks responsible for the HF filtering and ringing actually reading this thread? I can only imagine that if they were reading, they'd take the time to stop at a friend's house and view one of their own DVDs on a proper high-resolution projection set-up and see what I'm talking about...and you'd think that we'd see the product reflect such insights which clearly isn't happening.

-dave

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I've had some contact with some of the folks reponsible for the audio presentation on the discs, but only because they have read the reviews on this site and pro-actively contacted me to discuss (actually got an email from the guy who did the custom-home-theater mix for the Lion King...how cool is that!?!). But I've never heard a *peep* from any other studio member and no one responsible for anything picture-quality related has ever contacted me. Disney isn't quite like some of the other studios like WB and Fox where people seem to get to know them and talk plainly about various issues. The only number I have is for the marketing department that sends out the screeners...but I could try to ask and see if I can get anywhere.

Anyone know any contact information? Hello? Any of you Disney folks responsible for the HF filtering and ringing actually reading this thread? I can only imagine that if they were reading, they'd take the time to stop at a friend's house and view one of their own DVDs on a proper high-resolution projection set-up and see what I'm talking about...and you'd think that we'd see the product reflect such insights which clearly isn't happening.

-dave

 

[Bill Hunt]

Great review, David, but I certainly wouldn't say the video quality is crap. I have the original Japanese anamorphic DVD and the quality is very comparable - actually somewhat better. The main issue I had was print grain, which is to be expected for a film that was basically independently produced.

I'm watching on a 65" Mitsu Diamond, ISF calibrated, and while this transfer certainly isn't going to win any awards, it's entirely watchable and appropriate to this film. I noticed very little edge-enhancement beyond the normal faint ghosting that's inherent in NTSC, whether I was sitting in my usual viewing location or had my nose pressed right up against the screen. Contrast and shadow detailing are very good, and colors are absolutely accurate.

This is exactly how I recall the film looking in theaters, and I saw it in the theater half a dozen times.

I don't doubt your opinions, or that you're seeing something, but I have to disagree. It's not reference quality, but this is a solid transfer.

 

[Bill Hunt]

Great review, David, but I certainly wouldn't say the video quality is crap. I have the original Japanese anamorphic DVD and the quality is very comparable - actually somewhat better. The main issue I had was print grain, which is to be expected for a film that was basically independently produced.

I'm watching on a 65" Mitsu Diamond, ISF calibrated, and while this transfer certainly isn't going to win any awards, it's entirely watchable and appropriate to this film. I noticed very little edge-enhancement beyond the normal faint ghosting that's inherent in NTSC, whether I was sitting in my usual viewing location or had my nose pressed right up against the screen. Contrast and shadow detailing are very good, and colors are absolutely accurate.

This is exactly how I recall the film looking in theaters, and I saw it in the theater half a dozen times.

I don't doubt your opinions, or that you're seeing something, but I have to disagree. It's not reference quality, but this is a solid transfer.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Bill,

Thanks so much for posting back your comments here. I concur with your impressions of just about every aspect of this transfer/masting job...color, contrast, film-grain...all very much like what the print looked like projected theatrically to my memory. I just want to make it very clear that I'm 100% in agreement with you on all that. Perhaps I should edit my review to make those points stronger.

But in my system from a 1.5-1.75 screen width viewing distance I do see enough ringing around hard edges that it destroys the film-like character of this otherwise wonderful presentation...and it pisses me off because it does NOT have to be this way. I've seen other grainy, challenging material compressed with virtually no ringing and a minimum of HF filtering so it CAN be done.

Perhaps "CRAP" is too strong a word. But for me, given the stature of this title and how long we've waited to have it properly presented, it's a real shame.


Hmmm. Normal ghosting inherent in NTSC? That's nothing that should be a part of a 720 x 480 progressive-encoded digital image scaled to 1280 x 720 sent via DVI to a digital projector. Any such ghosting/ringing is a side-effect of improper mastering or introduced during playback by equipment...and given that properly mastered DVD software exhibit no such artifacts in my system, in this case I'm leaning towards a software encoding issue at fault.

I'd love to see the image on your screen so we could objectively compare/discuss our impressions. Perhaps the "normal faint ghosting" that you see when you move up close to your callibrated display is the same ringing that bothers the heck out of me when I view from a 30 degree viewing angle in my system. If I move back to more than 2 screen widths away the image looks beautiful to be sure, and I think that's what most people will experience.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Bill,

Thanks so much for posting back your comments here. I concur with your impressions of just about every aspect of this transfer/masting job...color, contrast, film-grain...all very much like what the print looked like projected theatrically to my memory. I just want to make it very clear that I'm 100% in agreement with you on all that. Perhaps I should edit my review to make those points stronger.

But in my system from a 1.5-1.75 screen width viewing distance I do see enough ringing around hard edges that it destroys the film-like character of this otherwise wonderful presentation...and it pisses me off because it does NOT have to be this way. I've seen other grainy, challenging material compressed with virtually no ringing and a minimum of HF filtering so it CAN be done.

Perhaps "CRAP" is too strong a word. But for me, given the stature of this title and how long we've waited to have it properly presented, it's a real shame.


Hmmm. Normal ghosting inherent in NTSC? That's nothing that should be a part of a 720 x 480 progressive-encoded digital image scaled to 1280 x 720 sent via DVI to a digital projector. Any such ghosting/ringing is a side-effect of improper mastering or introduced during playback by equipment...and given that properly mastered DVD software exhibit no such artifacts in my system, in this case I'm leaning towards a software encoding issue at fault.

I'd love to see the image on your screen so we could objectively compare/discuss our impressions. Perhaps the "normal faint ghosting" that you see when you move up close to your callibrated display is the same ringing that bothers the heck out of me when I view from a 30 degree viewing angle in my system. If I move back to more than 2 screen widths away the image looks beautiful to be sure, and I think that's what most people will experience.

 

[DeeF]

I'm so depressed about this, David. I love this movie, but it's truly a shame that it couldn't have a better presentation.

I see ringing on many movies, and many without. The ones without the ringing tend to be older films.

I did a comparison one time last year, between Gangs of New York and King of Kings. Surprise! King of Kings looks much, much better, without exacting one change in my system, like reducing or pumping up the contrast level.

It's just a shame -- I thought that as DVDs became more entrenched, and people bought widescreen TVs, that edge enhancement would go away.

 

[DeeF]

I'm so depressed about this, David. I love this movie, but it's truly a shame that it couldn't have a better presentation.

I see ringing on many movies, and many without. The ones without the ringing tend to be older films.

I did a comparison one time last year, between Gangs of New York and King of Kings. Surprise! King of Kings looks much, much better, without exacting one change in my system, like reducing or pumping up the contrast level.

It's just a shame -- I thought that as DVDs became more entrenched, and people bought widescreen TVs, that edge enhancement would go away.

 

[Craig S]

:b Don't know how I missed that - I guess I just skimmed the middle paragraph in the video section a little too quickly...

 

[Craig S]

:b Don't know how I missed that - I guess I just skimmed the middle paragraph in the video section a little too quickly...

 

[Bill Hunt]

Fair enough, David. The ghosting I'm seeing is very minor - it could be light EE, it could be a lot of things. Hard to tell without being able to see the original digital master prior to compression.

I do think the review came off a quite a bit strongly toward the negative, particularly by starting the picture section with the word crap. I agree that it's far from reference quality, but it's also VERY far from looking like crap, and it is entirely true to the original theatrical experience. People shouldn't take away the impression that this DVD looks bad by any measure, and it seems that's what many people believe now after reading this (judging by the comments here and the e-mails I've been getting). I think when you upscale any standard DVD image to 1280 and show it on a large projection screen... then look at it closer to the screen... you're going to start seeing serious imperfections, particularly if the transfer isn't reference quality the way some of the recent Superbit titles are. As you yourself have said, when you stand back, the picture looks beautiful. I think there's a measure of perspective needed here. Someday, when The English Patient is released in HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc, you'll get the image quality you're hoping for. For now though, I think most people will be very happy overall. And it's a SERIOUS improvement over the previous, non-anamorphic DVD release.

 

[Bill Hunt]

Fair enough, David. The ghosting I'm seeing is very minor - it could be light EE, it could be a lot of things. Hard to tell without being able to see the original digital master prior to compression.

I do think the review came off a quite a bit strongly toward the negative, particularly by starting the picture section with the word crap. I agree that it's far from reference quality, but it's also VERY far from looking like crap, and it is entirely true to the original theatrical experience. People shouldn't take away the impression that this DVD looks bad by any measure, and it seems that's what many people believe now after reading this (judging by the comments here and the e-mails I've been getting). I think when you upscale any standard DVD image to 1280 and show it on a large projection screen... then look at it closer to the screen... you're going to start seeing serious imperfections, particularly if the transfer isn't reference quality the way some of the recent Superbit titles are. As you yourself have said, when you stand back, the picture looks beautiful. I think there's a measure of perspective needed here. Someday, when The English Patient is released in HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc, you'll get the image quality you're hoping for. For now though, I think most people will be very happy overall. And it's a SERIOUS improvement over the previous, non-anamorphic DVD release.

 

[Elias A.]

I'm speculating here, but perhaps part of the problem with Miramax's video mastering process is that the video telecine people are looking at the movie on a relatively small monitor. I'm not sure what kind of equipment studios use when they make their video transfers, but if it's a smaller monitor, they might feel that some edge enhancement is actually an improvement to the image. They'd also be less likely to notice the harmful effects of filtering. This might explain why EE and filtering still tend to appear even in newer releases. If the technicians had a front projection setup and they could see how bad EE can look on a big screen, they might be less inclined to crank up the EE dial to 11. Maybe we need to all pitch in and buy the folks at Miramax a nice front projector and 120" screen so they'll stop screwing up their transfers.

 

[Elias A.]

I'm speculating here, but perhaps part of the problem with Miramax's video mastering process is that the video telecine people are looking at the movie on a relatively small monitor. I'm not sure what kind of equipment studios use when they make their video transfers, but if it's a smaller monitor, they might feel that some edge enhancement is actually an improvement to the image. They'd also be less likely to notice the harmful effects of filtering. This might explain why EE and filtering still tend to appear even in newer releases. If the technicians had a front projection setup and they could see how bad EE can look on a big screen, they might be less inclined to crank up the EE dial to 11. Maybe we need to all pitch in and buy the folks at Miramax a nice front projector and 120" screen so they'll stop screwing up their transfers.