DVD Review HTF REVIEW: Star Trek: Generations - Special Collector's Edition

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Scott Kimball, Aug 30, 2004.

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  1. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

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    Whoops - no, that's a typo... :b
     
  2. EnricoE

    EnricoE Supporting Actor

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    i wrote to dvdsoon, i've pre-ordered the dvd there [​IMG] , about this matter of replacement by paramount and here is the answer



    seams there is something cooking. at least i hope so [​IMG]
     
  3. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    Just my $.02:

    The more I hear about this disc, the more inclined I am to believe that Paramount simply reused the old non-anamorphic transfer and electronically stretched it to 16x9 format, then simply re-authored the disc.

    It's a puzzlement....

    Ted
     
  4. Jason Borchers

    Jason Borchers Second Unit

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    .
     
  5. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Another valuable instance of the HTF making a difference for my pocketbook. Thanks for saving me $ and disappointment on this new release. Hopefully PHV will do it right on the re-re-release. [​IMG]
     
  6. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    I'm confused.

    Compared to the previous dvd, does the picture quality on this new one look better or worse?
     
  7. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    How do you know they didn't do some processing on it to "enhance" it, thus bringing out flaws that weren't as obvious previously? Without a definition of "print damage", I certainly don't know the answer.

    If I had both DVD's, I would certainly do some captures and post them as I have done for similar issues in the past. Perhaps someone else could do this.

    The point is that we don't know.

    What we do know is that the new DVD has flaws that are certainly not typical of other new Paramount transfers that are currently being released, which sure makes me suspicious that something strange has happened with this release.

    Ted
     
  8. Will*B

    Will*B Supporting Actor

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    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it.

    The Digital Bits is reporting that PHV have confirmed there will be no recall, and that the release date of 9/7 still stands.
     
  9. Steve Christou

    Steve Christou Long Member

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    Well it's only a tenner over here, I'll pick it up for the packed 2nd disc and commentary and just keep my gorgeous region 2 copy, if it's as bad as all that.
     
  10. Cameron Seaman

    Cameron Seaman Supporting Actor

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    You'd think this DVD would actually have GOOD picture quality.

    Death to Edge Enhancement PLEASE. If you view on anything larger than a 32" Edge Enhancement is VERY DISTRACTING. I would actually go so far to say that EE makes DVD transfers absolutely horrible, but I seem to be a little more sensitive to EE. [​IMG]

    PIRATES OF CARIBBEAN from Miramax was horrible. Let's not get another studio doing this on a regular basis.

    Why the choice of Edge Enhancement?? WHY!!??

    As much as I love TNG, I seriously think I'm going to pass on this unless I see it for a discount price in the future.
     
  11. Jeff_HR

    Jeff_HR Producer

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    This DVD can be had for less than $14 from DVD Empire. How much of a discount do you need?
     
  12. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Screenwriter

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    Edge enhancement (or sharpening) isn't a bad thing. It's the MIS-APPLICATION of sharpening that is bad.

    Ask any photographer who works in the digital realm if he runs sharpening filters on his photos. They answer will be "yes" for almost every single photo.

    But there, the sharpening is done with care, given the specific circumstances of the single frame.

    I can almost guarantee that if, as so many people suggest, we got rid of EE completely, most everyone would complain about soft pictures.

    The issue isn't getting rid of EE, it is applying the filter correctly.

    -Scott
     
  13. John Alderson

    John Alderson Supporting Actor

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    I just don't understand who EE benefits [​IMG] I mean, seriously, WHO is the target audience for it? If you're smart enough to even SEE edge enhancement, you're smart enough to know why it's a bad thing. WHO would complain about a LACK of EE? It's just so frustrating. The only way I could see someone complaining about it is if you could turn it on and off (like VSM on TV's), and someone who doesn't know better would say "Ooh, sharper!" But my bet is that anyone who swings that way wouldn't be observant enough to notice a "soft" transfer if it bit them on the ass.
     
  14. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    Scott: I am somewhat concerned that, as a reviewer for HTF, you don't appear to understand the whole issue. Most important: It's not a "filter", it's not a single step in the DVD creation process that causes these issues.

    If the high frequencies that deliver image detail weren't rolled off, then sharpening would either not be required at all, or could be applied at a level that doesn't cause serious EE or halos. If people then want a sharper image, they can crank the sharpness control on their TV, or use the DScaler sharpen filter, or take any other required steps to increase the sharpness in the display chain. But, once a bad transfer with EE and a lack of fine detail is created, every purchaser of the DVD has to live with it forever!

    I would hope that you, and anyone else that is following this thread, have read this thread:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=206793 from end to end. And then, read it again, and again.

    We have a number of talented people who live the DVD creation process every day participating in this referenced thread, along with HTF Forum members who are providing input to them, and we still don't have a good grasp on where the process is going astray and why.

    It's being worked on, but there is apparently no simple solution.

    Ted
     
  15. Cameron Seaman

    Cameron Seaman Supporting Actor

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    $14 is really cheap. I would still have second thoughts about buying it for that. It depends on how much I think I can stand at the moment. I still havent watched all of Pirates of the Caribbean.

    No EE and this would have been a no-brainer. I would have payed more than $14 for it too.
     
  16. Ric Easton

    Ric Easton Cinematographer

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    At first I was just going on and on about the missing trailers, the more I read about the PQ, the more depressed I get. I think Paramount really blew this one. Can't wait to see how they treat First Contact
     
  17. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Screenwriter

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    Ted:
    Certainly I understand that there is more at issue than a simple filter application... oversimplified though my statement may have been, it is still valid.

    It's true that, IF the high frequencies weren't rolled off, then less sharpening could be applied... as was mentioned several times in the thread you quote, video encoding is all about compromises. There is no "one size fits all."

    All I simply said was, omitting the edge enhancement tool from the toolbox entirely would be a bad thing. Many people refuse to understand that. And you can't blame them, given how often the tool is used inappropriately.

    Used properly, sharpening can be beneficial.

    Oversharpening to compensate for excessive high frequency rolloff is not an appropriate use.

    My intent was not to be as technically detailed as the thread you quote. To do so would have required an extended thesis, one which I (and most other people here) am not qualified to provide.

    I don't claim to be an expert in video encoding, but I have worked professionally in digital imaging for a number of years. I would say I have a basic grasp of the concepts involved.

    -Scott
     
  18. Jeff

    Jeff Supporting Actor

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    How does the audio compare to the Laserdisc?
     
  19. Jonathan White

    Jonathan White Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had this DVD for about a week now and the picture quality is crap on a 28" screen never mind anything larger. It was like I was watching a video at times.

    But it only cost £10.99 and the extras are very good so must not grumble.
     
  20. Jeff_HR

    Jeff_HR Producer

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    Perhaps they should stop now & not release any more ST films. It appears that they may not care about quality with this series any longer.I doubt it though, too much $$$$$$$ to be made. Too bad they can't use WB as an example.
     

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