HTF REVIEW: "Beauty and the Beast" (Highly Recommended) (with screenshots) (1 Viewer)

[Lyle_JP]

DVDFile is wrong, this disc uses seamless branching. The fact that it displays as three different titles is irrelevant. "The Abyss" shows as Title 1 when you play the theatrical version and Title 2 when you play the Special Edition, as does T2.
Here's what sources tell me about the layout of the new BATB DVD:
The Theatrical version is the "base" video stream. Any changes done by the Special Edition are seamless-branched in. The WIP is actually an alternate angle of the Theatrical Version's video stream. When you get to scenes which were fully completed for the WIP version, the angle switches back to the theatrical version to save space.
So there you have it, a DVD making use of seamless branching and multiple angles to give three very different presentations of a film great looking presentations on one DVD! Bravo to Disney for pushing the envelope.
-Lyle J.P.

 

[James Reader]

The Theatrical version is the "base" video stream. Any changes done by the Special Edition are seamless-branched in. The WIP is actually an alternate angle of the Theatrical Version's video stream. When you get to scenes which were fully completed for the WIP version, the angle switches back to the theatrical version to save space.

So does this mean that all of the little animation and detail tweaks made throughout the 'Special Edition' feature are missing and only the musical number and subsequent castle scenes are from the 'Special Edition'.
I agree that the soundtrack on all three versions appears to be the 'Special Edition' soundtrack - the Beast is heard to smash objects when Belle leaves after he had released her from her promise. This was added to the 'Special Edition' to explain why the castle was once again trashed after the new cleaned-up sequences had finished.
Does this mean that in-fact none of the 3 versions are 100% as presented in Cinemas?
Addition and isn't the 'Work In Progress' version supposed to have a slighty different musical score?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

And again, the VOB interleaving of multiple angles has substantial tradeoffs.
When you interleave, the total peak bandwidth for each angle is reduced from 9.8 Mb/s (peak available if you didn't use angles in the authoring) to as low as 7.0 Mb/s
7.0 Mb/s peak is very low for animation, especially with over 1 Mb/s eaten up by 3 audio tracks, and more for subtitles and 'sing along' captions!

 

[Brian Kidd]

James, why would that mean that the other changes made to the SE are not on the disc? Up until the new number, the two versions are vitually identical. All they would have to do is branch off when the new scene starts and go from there. I'm pretty sure that at least the SE is intact.

 

[James Reader]

I don't know Brian, perhaps so, but I was led to believe that throughout the feature a substantial number of changes were made to animation - generally this was improving the detail on background figures and detail (bearing in mind that they would be huge on an IMAX screen).

I really would like to see a definitive list of changes if one if available.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

When you interleave, the total peak bandwidth for each angle is reduced from 9.8 Mb/s (peak available if you didn't use angles in the authoring) to as low as 7.0 MBb/s

7.0 Mb/s peak is very low for animation, especially with over 1 Mb/s eaten up by 3 audio tracks, and more for subtitles and 'sing along' captions!

Exactly.

while providing braching only affects the overall amount of bitspace available (which might not be a problem for a short feature like this), the multiple angle feature takes a big bite out of the max bit-rate headroom which apparently has resulted in MEPG artifacting in this DVD.

I would have loved the branching feature for the two main versions and then have the work in progress on disc 2 to maintain picture quality (MPEG artifacts kept to minimum) on the actual feature disc.

Bravo to Disney for being innovative, but I'd rather see P.Q. maximized for the big-screen experience even if a few fancy features need to be nixed. In this case, it would have just meant a reshuffling of the WIP.

-dave

 

[Marty Christion]

Mouseplanet.com (a Disney gossip site) has their B&B review up. There are two portions to the review: one is the "Joe-6-pack" review, the other is the "Advanced Home Theater".
http://www.mouseplanet.com/hometheater/ht021008kk.htm
Here are some excerpts:
From J6P

As Kevin noted in his review, Disney compressed three versions of the movie onto the first disc. Unfortunately, if you have a big screen, this means you see all sorts of artifacting, particularly in the characters' faces. There also appears to be some edge enhancement, which shows up as shadows under the lines used to define the characters. It was very noticeable on a 50-inch widescreen set, even with progressive scan, and should be even more glaring in the more commonly sold larger screen sizes above that.
If you want to see the difference between too much compression and what they should have done, just pull up the large-format release trailer from the "Release and Reactions" menu in the "Trailers & TV Spots" section on disc two. This trailer has just about double the bit rate, and even though the colors aren't as tweaked as in the movie, the artifacting is minimal.
Ideally Disney should have placed the Work in Progress edition on the second disc, and since they did not offer a full-frame version, then used seamless branching on disc one for inserting the new "Human Again" number (and various fixes) for the special edition. This would have allowed more room for the movie, and made for far fewer visible artifacts.

They also have a screen grab, which shows some of the artifacts.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

another screen cap revealing excessive MPEG artifacting (these artifacts are in the source image...not a result of the JPG image):


I find it very interesting that mouseplanet's impression is the same as what we see here in this image. Any of you out there with a 50" or bigger 16x9 TV and 480P capability want to get a little closer to your set...say w/in a 30 degree angle and tell us if you can duplicate this on your screen or if you're image appears sans-MPEG uglies? It's possible that some DVD players may be less prone to this mosquito noise than others.
I, for one, would have gladly paid for an extra disc for the WIP to up the max bit-rate for the feature film.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Any of you out there with a 50" or bigger 16x9 TV and 480P capability want to get a little closer to your set...say w/in a 30 degree angle and tell us if you can duplicate this on your screen or if you're image appears sans-MPEG uglies?

Within 2 to 4 hours I will do just that, but on a 53" HDTV with a true 16:9 squeeze mode (at 48.6"), where the 16:9 mode was ISF calibrated recently by David Abrams (who comes personally recommended by Joe Kane, co-founder of the ISF and creator of Video Essentials). The DVD player is the RP-82, which uses the exact same reference-level MPEG decoder as the RP-91. Also, I will be trying out (for the first time) the variable mosquito noise-reduction ability of the player.

 

[Chris Farmer]

Just thought I'd mention that my local Best Buy (College Station, TX) has this title, but rather that just the keepcase, they've stuck the keepcase in a really nice external slipcase. There are a few stickers that come off easily enough, and the slipcase looks really really nice. Given that BB is pretty inexpensive anyways, it's worth checking for.

 

[Lyle_JP]

Well, I'm about to withdraw my kudos to Disney for pushing the envelope, I think they tore it. I was going largely on Ron's review, but I just loaded this thing into my PC DVD player and, yuck, there is 'skeeter noise everywhere! Just look at this vidcap. Yes, the backgroung is beautiful, but look at the noise all aroung Belle's face, and pay special attention to the line along the top edge of the door. No folks, that's not "edge enhancement", it's ugly MPEG artifacting from too much compression!
Link Removed
A classic like Beauty and the Beast deserved more. :frowning:
Like Michael, I also will be testing the "Mosquito Noise Reduction" feature of my player, a Pioneer Elite DV-37. I hope it will make a positive difference.
-Lyle J.P.

 

[Christian Preischl]

Hi,

Just thought I'd mention that my local Best Buy (College Station, TX) has this title, but rather that just the keepcase, they've stuck the keepcase in a really nice external slipcase.

I thought that was the standard packaging for this set. At least my copy from dvdsoon.com is the same.

Chris

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Well, I've done some testing.
If THX can put their name on this, I have no idea what their logo means. The joke goes on.
The mosquito noise is just as bad as reported, and just as bad as the screenshots illustrate.
The NR feature of my player helped a little bit, but I think there's just way more noise than this type of feature was designed to handle.
I'm extremely disappointed. This is one of my favorites, and I'll never understand why Disney didn't make sure that the picture quality was given the same priority as it was on discs like Pinocchio and Tarzan.
I'll keep this disc because I love this film, but if Disney keeps shoveling 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag, I'll be buying a lot fewer discs from them in the future.

 

[Terrell]

Michael, since when has Disney made it a practice of shoveling shit? When it comes to DVD, Disney is clearly one of the best when it comes to DVD. And you can't blame THX for this. Disney put a lot on one disc. There were bound to be some minor limitations. I think the discs look great except for the slight amount of noise. Should THX just say we refuse to do this disc anymore simply because there's too much on the disc to make it reference? Of course not. Once you're hired to do work, you finish it the best you can. They were hired to make the DVD look the best it can. They did that. If you want to blame anyone, blame Disney for being too ambitious with the different versions. But there is no way on God's green earth you can call this DVD shit and be accurate.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Terrell,
1) "10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag" is an old expression that refers to trying to squeeze too much where it doesn't belong and is not a comment on the actual quality of the material involved. I know you are pretty young and might not have heard the expression before, but I wasn't implying that the movie is shit.
2) The disc is poor compared not just to previous Disney releases, but also to virtually every anime, Warner Bros, Dreamworks, and other animated discs in my library.
3) THX has become a joke, and this opinion is widespread among those who "dare" be critical enough to expect quality DVD releases. THX can refuse to put their name on a disc that does not meet their standards, and does not have to accept the overstuffing of a disc. If being 'hired' in this respect means that they have to accept poor quality, that just further confirms that the name is for sale and does not assure the quality of the finished product.
4) Overcramming a disc is not 'ambitious'. Daring to do a 3-disc set of a contemporary animated film is 'ambitious'.
I remember how you defended the quality of the Episode One disc (while dozens of us found the ringing to be terrible), so I don't expect you to see eye to eye with the more critical members here on issues like this. Let's just let it rest. I'm not trying to start a fight here.
The DVD format is capable of better than this, and Disney is capable of better than this. "Extras" are just that, extra, and if the bean counters say the set needs to be 2 discs, they would be better off ditching half of the supplements on disc 2 (much of which are pretty fluffy, frankly) and moving the 'In Progress' version over there.
Shame on Disney.
I wonder if the R2 NTSC version in Japan will look this bad. It won't go over well.
If anybody can come forward with any rationalization of why Disney should release 'Beauty' with a notably worse picture than 'Pinocchio' or 'Tarzan', I'd love to hear it.

 

[Kenneth Cummings]

I thought I remember hearing Pinocchio had the worst quality picture out there from Disney? Still will get this, even with the somewhat bad artficating. Besides, can't be worst then "Army of Darkness" direction cut bootleg edition in picture quality.

 

[Jo_C]

Allow me to give my humble opinion of the B&B DVD...

I now have, in my possession, the "Beauty And The Beast" DVD, which I bought today. I don't know what to say at this point, but it is a good DVD...considering the limited space of a dual-layered DVD, they managed to cram all three versions (theatrical, work in progress, and IMAX special edition) into one disc. The supplements on the other disc aren't as elaborate as "Snow White", but they are worth seeing. One flaw...the Celine Dion-hosted segment ("The Making Of Beauty And The Beast") is actually no more than a highlights reel of Disc Two's supplements...you might as well see all the supplements instead. But given the space Disney had to work with, it is good...not as great as "Snow White", but good.

However, I've noticed many things on this DVD different than the Laserdisc...for one, as I mentioned, the aspect ratio is 1.85:1 (whereas previous LaserDisc editions have it at the intended camera negative VistaVision ratio of 1.66:1, which reveals more information on the top and bottom of the frame than the DVD)...also, the "work in progress" version on the DVD is markedly different than the "work in progress" version on the LaserDisc! For one thing, a different main title card can be seen, complete with pencil marks indicating change in sequence (whereas the LaserDisc proper has a cheezy card, typical for an unfinished work), and the segues from one scene to another are different. Most of the time they use the actual work in progress print, whereas the LaserDisc combined the unfinished scenes to the "final" scenes from the theatrical version where appropriate.

Another thing missing from the DVD...aside from the first trailer from the theatrical version on the LaserDisc, there is one other trailer on the LaserDisc that is not present on the DVD. It's a review trailer from the original theatrical release. But other than that, the DVD really has more material than the "work in progress" and "final" version LaserDiscs combined!

You may also have noticed something...the additional end title music on the IMAX Special Edition is tracked from the original (but unused) music where the Beast dies and comes back to life...this can be found on Disc Two's supplemental section (Alternate score: The Transformation) where an unfinished version of the Beast's death can be seen with the unused score in its proper context. On the Special Edition soundtrack album, it is called "Death Of The Beast".


Something to think about.

 

[Terrell]

If anybody can come forward with any rationalization of why Disney should release 'Beauty' with a notably worse picture than 'Pinocchio' or 'Tarzan', I'd love to hear it.

Well, I won't rationalize it. I'll just say that in my opinion Tarzan is one of the greatest transfers of all time. I could probably count the DVDs that equal or exceed it on one hand. So there are a ton of DVDs that don't match Tarzan.
I can't comment on Pinnochio as I've yet to buy it.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I must say that Disney made me smile with the last page of the insert booklet:
-------
Film Presented In Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio:
Beauty and the Beast is presented in the orginal theatrical aspect ratio, widescreen (1.85:1). On standard TVs there will be black horizontal bars on the top and bottom of the TV - allowing you to see the expansiveness and full picture from side to side...
{Widescreen and Fullscreen side by side comparison}
See the difference in the aspect ratios of the Widescreen versus the Fullscreen image?
Your DVD player may be equipped with a zoom feature. If you would prefer to view this film in Fullscreen, check to see if your DVD player is equipped with this feature. You may be able to use this feature to simulate a Fullscreen image on your television. (The result may depend on your player's performance.)
-------
Finally a studio is sudgesting to use the Zoom feature. This is how all dvd's should be released. Forget Fullscreen, tell them to zoom. If they can't, then they should have gotten a different DVD player.
BRAVO Disney for trying to educate the viewer instead of throwing in a Fullscreen version of the film.
Sad to hear of the artifacts in the image though. I will find out if it is all true soon enough. You would think that I could find them easily on a 110" screen.

 

[Terrell]

Well, I noticed it on my Elite PRO-720HD. So you'll notice it.

By the way, does anyone other than me hate the way the two discs are held in the case? Why did they do away with the type cases used for Gladiator, where the first disc is on a plastic sleeve and the sleeve is on a hinge? This new design where there's just a smalle flap permanently connected to the spine, and the disc facing each other annoys the hell out of me. Makes it a bit problematic when getting disc 1 out. That little flap doesn't bend all the way back.